News of Kyle Rittenhouse being found not guilty on all charges brought against him should have been reason for widespread, unanimous celebration. To absolutely every sane, honest person of any persuasion paying attention to the case, there was absolute, unequivocal video evidence supporting his plea of self-defense as true, and absolutely nothing whatsoever to contradict that fact. Justice prevailed. An innocent was vindicated.
But from the very beginning of this trial....actually before the events which led to it....the leftist media proved once again, and continuously, the fact they are the enemy of the people. President Depends expects rational people to believe it's "white supremacy", but really that's nothing compared to the threat to America the leftist press has proven themselves to be.
From the arrest and shooting of thug Jacob Blake, to the aftermath of this trial, the lefty media has lied repeatedly. Even within the last week or so...and it could've been just yesterday (I didn't mark when it occurred)...it was reported by a lefty outlet, I believe ABC News, that the "protests" in Kenosha (that was a lie, as it was rioting, not peaceful protests) were over the "killing" of Blake. How does a news outlet get that wrong?
On Tucker Carlson's show, he had two guests who were covering the "protests" (again, a lie as they were riots) from the jump and they attest to the carnage which ensued almost immediately. Yet the lefty media routinely tried to pretend the violence was secondary to "peaceful" protesting of a vile and overt lie regarding the Blake situation being another case of a black man being a victim of racism, which the media also falsely affirmed as true.
Throughout the trial of Rittenhouse, the media continued to portray him as violent, a racist, a militiaman, illegally possessing a weapon brought across state lines. All lies intentionally told. I say "intentionally" because their job is to get the facts straight, and they choose to push the lefty narrative on any story by which such a push favors and benefits the leftist cause...which is harmful to our nation to a very dangerous degree. The division it stokes alone cannot continue unabated without disastrous consequences for all...even for other leftists.
Now that the trial is over, and their target has been proven innocent, this same group of lying bastards are trying to pretend it will provoke vigilante-ism and black people will be at greater risk because "white supremacists" will be enabled. More gun control is advocated while bail reform is as well, demonstrating just how stupid these morons are, as well.
Here's an interesting note: Glenn Greenwald lives in Brazil. He states the three largest news outlets reported on this case...just in the last week or so...that the criminal assholes trying to kill Rittenhouse before the kid shot them were black men! What's more, he attests that other European outlets were reporting the same thing. Thus, not only is our leftist media lying to people here, but they are the American outlets from which foreign news outlets get their info!! THEY'RE LYING TO THE WORLD!!! They're enemies of people world wide!!!!
Of course they aren't the only lefties lying about this case and promoting false presumption. We hear the same lies, threats and nonsensical concerns from Democrat politicians from the president on down, as well as by the moron lefty actors and athletes. Haven't any of these idiots actually followed this case?
That's not all the enemies of the people have been saying. I've seen a collection of reports wherein their "journalists" have been promoting the notion that inflation is a good thing. All in all, they promote the stupidity of Biden's economic policies as that which will bring about rainbows and candy for all. At what point do these America haters actually investigate anything? Where's the concern for truth?
We need a free press. We don't need a press which abuses that freedom to purposely lie to the American people. Those who defend the lefty news outlets are every bit aiding and abetting their criminal behavior because they believe the lies themselves and demand others do as well. They must be mocked for the liars and morons they truly are for the sake of the good people who will suffer should their moronic lying hurt more people.
145 comments:
"“Black moms deal with a lot, and we have to compartmentalize in order to put smiles on our faces and move forward,” Brown said. “Because either people don’t get it or they think it’s ‘too heavy’ or it’s ‘too frustrating’ or it’s ‘too much of a debate.’”
Brown said the verdict is a microcosm of what her children face in school, on playgrounds and in public; these experiences exemplify the ways Black children are seen as innately threatening, while white children are viewed as innately innocent..."
"“I have two beautiful daughters, and one looks white, and she is treated differently. People don’t realize that I’m her mom until she clarifies it,” Hill said. “My other daughter is ... dark ... and I have watched my own children be treated differently, whether it’s at a park or at school, because they’re completely different shades.”
“So am I surprised by the verdict? No,” she said. “As a Black person in this country, I am not surprised. And as a Black parent, I worry about my children’s safety.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/sad-angry-frustrated-black-moms-rittenhouse-verdict-rcna6604
How are you feeling about the Arbery convictions? Want to tell more black families to quit complaining about our real history of oppression and the real threat to their children?
You're perfectly free to continue listening to people who are locked into their own little worlds believing things are different for others. As a white parent...jeez, what a stupid-assed way to phrase such a thing...as a parent, I worry about my children's safety and now the safety of my grandchildren. Danger lurks and doesn't favor white over black. Do you want me to produce stories of blacks ganging up on white kids? It's not like it doesn't happen quite a bit. I'd never suggest there haven't been cases of the reverse, especially in the southern states back in the day. But the reality which you pretend doesn't exist, is that there is a difference between how some kids are raised as opposed to others, and it's unfortunately the case that too many black kids are raised to believe they'll be singled out because of their color. The problem is, they're often singled out because there's precedent set by other kids of that same color. Now some of those kids are raising kids of their own and telling them the same crap and those younger kids are recycling the lie.
And to the extent that black kids are treated differently, would you like a great way to end that difference? Preach absolute adherence to civility, hard work, and every other character trait of virtue regardless of circumstance. It's kinda what I was taught and it still works at my age.
Finally, there's a decided difference in the way light-skinned blacks are treated by those of darker hue. So this woman you quoted is a liar for pretending it's somehow more of a concern if that difference in treatment is solely a white negative.
I'm more than a bit tired and bored with your white-guilt, savior of the black race bullshit. It's based on crap and smells just as badly.
In the meantime, I've been considering a post specific to the Arbery case, because I do indeed have problems with it based on things I read when the story first broke compared to what I hear came out of the trial. But for now, I would suggest to you that his running from those three is more likely than not a product of being raised by a dumb ass like the woman you quoted. If he did nothing wrong, why was he running from them? I never would have. Why is that? Because I'm not told by my mother than everyone is out to kill me because of who I am. That training leads to outcomes like Arbery's.
Here's another issue: Rittenhouse has been said to have had no business being in Kenosha that night. Arbery is said to have had no business "jogging" in that neighborhood. Whites are routinely told they don't belong in black neighborhoods by the black punks who live there. Not a one of these is true. Americans have the right to be, without permission, anywhere they choose so long as it's not on someone's private property, such as a home under construction.
Wow. It's never not shocking the vitriol and unmerited arrogance in your words, not to mention the hints of racism.
I say we should listen to black people, and cite some mothers raising concerns that black families have long known because of our built-in racism and oppression of people of color. And for suggesting we should listen to black people, Marshal says I'm trying to be a white savior promoting white guilt. Somehow.
In the meantime, you have the arrogance to tell women and parents such as the ones cited in the article how stupid they are and how they're to blame for their own oppression and you don't see how your presumption in telling them how stupid and wrong they are and how they'd be better off listening to you is NOT an example of you acting as a white savior.
I point out how the media is just reporting what black people are experiencing and saying and you see that as a sign of media bias and falsehood.
It's just this sort of dangerous arrogance in spite of any reality that keeps alive the flames of slavery and Jim Crow and oppression. Open your eyes and ears, Marshal. Learn from others. Stop denying reality.
It's white idiots like you who continue the oppression when you land on juries.
Wow. It's never not surprising the false air of moral superiority emanating from the likes of you, so cocksure that which you produce is representative of the entire black race, not to mention...not hints, but...clear indication of racial self-loathing as well as animus toward those who don't suffer race-baiting fools or those who abide false perceptions, like the mothers you find so compelling.
You say we should listen to black people, cite some mothers raising false concerns which are no more than self-deception regarding race relations which allow them to carry on as if what they pretend is true is not in any way related to their own biases. And of course, the black people to whom you insist are the only black people whose voices matter do not represent all black people, and what's more, are not necessarily typical of the brightest and most honest among them.
You point out how the leftist media is just reporting what some black people say they are experiencing and expect everyone to believe they're representation isn't colored by their own false perceptions of those against whom they have an ingrained, indoctrinated bias. It is bias and falsehood because I know full well what they say isn't shared by all, perhaps not even most, black people, but only those who need an excuse to cover for their own failures. This is true of leftists in general.
It's just this sort of dangerous arrogance in spite of any actual reality that keeps alive the flames of racism and insufferable white progressive-ism. Open your eyes and ears, and more importantly, that mass of crap you call a brain, Dan. Learn from more than just leftist black people and stop denying reality in favor of your fantasy land.
It's white (and black) idiots like you who continue to foster (and fester) that which has done so much harm to our nation and its culture. Your enabling of failed policies and attitudes perpetuates all that those like the mother you cite believe to be true and the suffering of too many of their community (to say nothing of all communities). It doesn't have to be so, but those like you insure it will continue to be so.
Marshal... "not to mention...not hints, but...clear indication of racial self-loathing..."
I quoted this story saying what large numbers of black folk are saying... almost certainly the vast majority... and think we should heed their words. Now think hard Marshal and see if you can't answer this question...
HOW does that even begin to even barely hint at racial self-loathing? Is the notion of a white man valuing and listening to and finding it important when a majority of black people offer a testimony of the black experience in the US SOOO hard to believe that you can only explain it by racial self-loathing??
The claim is bizarre. I don't even mention whiteness and you think it's racial self-loathing?
Please explain yourself. This is just an exceedingly bizarre claim that I can't imagine how you even created it...
Marshal... "And of course, the black people to whom you insist are the only black people whose voices matter do not represent all black people, and what's more, are not necessarily typical of the brightest and most honest among them."
Marshal, just stop. Your descendants are calling out from the future, begging you to stop disgracing your family!
1. I never said they speak for all black people. Of course.
2. They are saying what the vast majority of black people are saying... telling you their real lived experiences. Listen to them.
3. The racist and arrogant notion that if you disagree with white Marshal and the overt racists, you must not be intelligent is just an embarrassment to you and yours.
Stop.
"I quoted this story saying what large numbers of black folk are saying... almost certainly the vast majority..."
"Certainly the vast majority"? Based on what poll? And even if it is indeed the vast majority who feel as this woman does, are you truly saying it means her perspective is reality? In what world does an appeal to numbers mean anything more than a logical fallacy?
"and think we should heed their words"
Why? Because some express that which doesn't reflect anything more than their opinion?
"HOW does that even begin to even barely hint at racial self-loathing?"
No hard thinking is required. This woman expresses what she believes to be true, and like the wuss you are, you simply accept that it IS true because she said it. No questioning. No demand for proof to support what she says. You just simply accept it because you buy into the "white man bad" narrative the race-hustlers are selling you. But then, maybe you have reason to feel so guilty. I've done nothing to them and so there is no requirement or obligation on my part offer to accept responsibility for what this woman and those like her wish to pretend is absolutely racism on the part of whites. Your buying in is self-loathing.
Normal people hear what this woman says and says, "That's a sad story. Why should I believe it? What proofs have you that what you say is an accurate reflection of reality?" And of course, how does she account for the racism within her own community where a light-skinned "African American" is marginalized by the darker-skinned of their own race?
"Is the notion of a white man valuing and listening to and finding it important when a majority of black people offer a testimony of the black experience in the US SOOO hard to believe that you can only explain it by racial self-loathing??"
WHAT "majority", Dan? And what poll can you show to back up that claim? And again, if there is such a majority, how does that make it true as opposed to a majority having bought into the narrative as an easy way to explain their difficulties? And what the hell is wrong with people who do such things rather than continue to strive despite whatever true obstacles are in their way? Jeez, you're a putz!
"The claim is bizarre. I don't even mention whiteness and you think it's racial self-loathing? "
Not bizarre at all given who I'm exchanging posts. You don't have to mention the word to express the loathing you feel for yourself and other Caucasians. It's implicit given the words of the woman. You agree with what she says. If you don't, you've NEVER provided any hint of disagreement. So, who you crappin'?
"Marshal, just stop. Your descendants are calling out from the future, begging you to stop disgracing your family!"
No they're not. They're saying, "Wow! That old dude was a sharp one, stating the obvious!"
"1. I never said they speak for all black people. Of course."
In not so many words. Yet you ignore all those who take the opposing position and never acknowledge those listed by both Craig and myself who are among them. You focus on this faction of people who are basically whining that their problems are the result of racism. And you constantly insist they speak for "the majority" without providing jack shit to support the claim.
"2. They are saying what the vast majority of black people are saying... telling you their real lived experiences."
See? "The majority" again. Wait! Not just "the majority", but "the VAST majority". Bullshit. Prove it!
As to their "real lived experiences", that's bullshit, too. At best, we can only acknowledge it's their version of their experiences and hope to God it's without blemish. Can you prove their "real lived experiences" are truly that and not simply their self-serving rendition? Can you? CAN YOU? No. You simply accept it because you choose to believe "white man bad".
"3. The racist and arrogant notion that if you disagree with white Marshal and the overt racists, you must not be intelligent is just an embarrassment to you and yours."
And here it is! Disagree with a black person and you're racist. Disagree with a white-guilted Kentucky pussy and you're a racist. Don't you dare ask for proofs or evidence to support the "real lived experience" of a black person, because doing so makes you a racist. Talk about racist and arrogant. That's you in a nutshell! Intelligent people don't simply take anyone's word for an accusation. That makes the accused guilty without being proven so. That's unAmerican, not racist, you shit-for-brains fake Christian.
My suggestion not only stands, but is a solid method for reversing the bad opinion of others, especially if a given person is wholly undeserving, but accused due to being part of a group. Let me give you an example:
I admit to never having been the most ass-busting employee in my life. I was happy to do enough to make of myself to be an asset, that should the company be compelled to cut staff, I'd be among those who would not be cut because I've proven myself reliable and capable of getting my work done. But then I came to work at my present company and between it and the company with which we are contracted, I quickly determined that my previous plan was not enough. I became a harder worker so as not to be confused with the rest. I wanted to stand out as being more than just an asset, giving no one any reason to care little for my absence. Thus, I am now one who is not included when they speak negatively about my company. "Except for Art" they say when disparaging other drivers. "We like Art." With my impending departure, several have expressed their dismay that one upon whom they've come to rely won't be around and they'll be left with less. I don't say this to brag, but to demonstrate that it is something not uncommon in any way, and for those of the black community to pretend they aren't obliged to engage in this way is part of why they aren't universally sought out by anyone. I know several really good workers of any race or ethnicity you can imagine. I know there are many more who don't believe they're obliged to give their all for their pay. And it is this attitude which keeps them down. Not their race. Not their sex. Not their ethnicity.
Those black people you regard as worthy of hearing may not be doing all they can. They may be wrongly regarded because they do nothing to separate themselves from those who have convinced others to regard the lot of them poorly. It's a natural reaction. And now, we're seeing more hordes of blacks looting in broad daylight and you expect people to not look upon them with suspicion? Who the FUCK among them is pushing back against this crap? The answer is those black voices YOU ignore, you stupid asshole.
Good people don't hold up the George Floyds, Trayvon Martins, Eric Garners, Jacob Blakes as victims of oppression, racism or police misconduct. But those are the voices you want me to hear. I've heard them. I'm not interested. I prefer better.
So let's put it in simpler terms: You're a moron. You have no mature understanding of anything as far as I can tell. For someone like you to condescend to me is laughable and you're on the wrong side of every issue. What's more, you seem to lack the intelligence to want anything better than to be on the wrong side of every issue. You provide nothing to even provoke consideration that you have a clue about anything. You're a joke.
Black people the LEFT, nor the blacks who want to be victims their whole lives, are Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, Ben Carson, Taleeb Starkes, Candice Owens, et al because they tell the truth about how the LEFT/Demokrats want blacks to be victims beholden to the government nanny!
I left out the phrase "don't want to listen to" which should be right after "lives," which would make the sentence make sense. I need to proof read!
It's true, Glenn. The Jewish community suffers from the same delusion that the Democratic Party gives a flying rat's ass about them. But I think there's a slow awakening taking place...or I certainly hope so...that it is the conservative side which provides a better life for them, as it has for current conservatives. The administration now in power proves that better than the left's most ardent promoters have the honesty...or wisdom...to acknowledge.
You white boys insisting you know better than the majority of black and Jewish people (and, presumably, LGBTQ folks) is the epitome of white privilege and arrogance, racism and antisemitism. And you're so blinded by your arrogance you don't even see it.
No doubt you'd certainly like to believe that. But then, you're a moron. It's not that we "know better than" anyone, but rather we know what is true about why people flourish and why others don't...why some people go through life without ever having a life-threatening confrontation, be it with cops or civilians, and why others have them. It's not rocket science and it certainly isn't racism far more often than not. Racism is just an easy way of pretending one is worthy of what one is unwilling or unable to achieve through their own efforts. It's just an easy way of rationalizing the death of someone who put themselves in a situation where death is a real possibility. Charges of racism is deflecting personal responsibility. What your sorry ass needs to believe is arrogance, privilege, racism or antisemitism is in reality simple honesty. It's what comes from being totally objective in looking at the world and how things work and how things happen. But you're so blinded by your stupidity, dishonesty and marxism that you refuse to see it. What's more, there are plenty of "non-white boys" and Jews who are also honest enough to see what you refuse to accept. Among the more notable examples is Jason L. Riley, author of "Please Stop Helping Us: How Liberals Make It Harder for Blacks to Succeed", in which he talks about asshats like you. He speaks again of it in the following exerpt from a WSJ piece:
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/the-soul-of-black-conservatism
Blacks like Riley, Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Larry Elder, and Jews like Dennis Prager, Michael Medved, Ben Shapiro...I guess all these guys and more are anti-semitic racists, sick with white privilege and arrogance.
You're a joke.
I find it hilarious that Trabue considers himself an expert on blacks and their culture and Jews and their culture. He's a legend in his own mind.
I find it funny only those black/Jewish voices to which he insists are worth listening are unassailable reflections of reality...that their "lived experiences" are accurately related and beyond questioning.
feo had been trying to post comments here and naturally, given that he's proven himself to be unworthy of our company, I won't allow his comments here. But it was a short one and not difficult to get the gist while deleting forever. Then I thought about what I thought I saw, and went over to Dan's where I was likely to see him post the comment there, which it seems he did. This is what he said, minus a brief expression of greater idiocy afterwards:
"90+% of black folks vote for the Democratic Party in every election, national, state, or municipal. Not because they believe in the Democratic Party. But because the other side doesn't care if black folks are shot to death."
The first sentence is the problem. The third is feo's hilariously moronic reason why. Except that the reason doesn't jibe with reality in the least. When one considers how many black babies are aborted every year, due to abortion mills purposely located in black communities by leftists like feo and Dan, and then add to that all those in the black communities murdered every year by black thugs allowed to roam free, armed in ways innocent citizens are prohibited from being, it's pretty clear which party doesn't care if blacks are murdered or not. It would be the party feo and Dan support.
The left supports "bail reform", which in too many cases means eliminating bail altogether, allowing even the worst of the worst to roam free while awaiting trial. This has led to deaths incarceration with no bail or a high bail would have prevented.
The left supports "prison reform", which in too many cases means releasing violent criminals or not even incarcerating them in the first place. This, too, will lead to more murder.
The left supports "defunding the police", which in too many cases means some form of reducing police presence in the very neighborhoods where the worst of the worst prey upon those least able to defend themselves because of leftist policies leaving them defenseless.
So the question is why do 90+% of black folks vote for the party which puts them in the greatest danger? Because they've come to believe the party which is more likely to make their streets safer is the party trying to kill them. How did they come to believe this? By generations of indoctrination by race-hustling exploiters who populate the left telling them that which isn't true. They're enabled in all their wrong think, and when Dan speaks of them sharing their "lived experiences", those people are speaking through the lens of falsehood. They won't consider what behaviors of theirs played any roll in their "experiences" because they have the "white supremacist" narrative at the ready to absolve them of personal responsibility. Wish I had that! How nice it would be to point elsewhere first anytime life gets hard!
Feo first posted his ignorant claims on my blog and I had the momentary stupidty to post it so I could respond to his abject ignorance and stupidity. Ah, but like the cowardly bully he is he began bombarding every one of my blogs and my wife's blog claiming I'm not a Christian, that I am a racist, etc, etc. I made one more comment to let him know he is now forbidden to post and his comments (unposted of course) got nastier. He and Trabue are birds of a feather, thinking they are the only ones truly knowledgeable about black culture, etc.
Lawdy, Lawdy, if ONLY the majority of black people would lissen to the wise words of Massa Marshal and his toady, Glenn!
You boys are an embarrassment to yourselves and your families. Shame on you. Repent.
Marshal... " It's not that we "know better than" anyone, but rather we know what is true about why people flourish and why others don't..."
"It's not rocket science and it certainly isn't racism far more often than not."
"How did they come to believe this? By generations of indoctrination by race-hustling exploiters who populate the left telling them that which isn't true."
So, you aren't saying you're smarter than most black people - the vast majority - BUT, YOU know what is true and the majority of black people don't. YOU know it's not rocket science, but they don't... because they're not as smart as you. They can't see how they are being "indoctrinated" but YOU do...
You ARE saying you're smarter, not as gullible, not as easily duped as the vast majority of black people.
Do you NOT SEE how racist and white-privileged this is?!
Come on. You're not this obtuse.
Repent of your white arrogance.
Glenn... "I find it hilarious that Trabue considers himself an expert on blacks and their culture and Jews and their culture."
1. I never said I was an expert on "blacks and their culture..." This is a stupidly false claim. There's NOTHING TO SUPPORT it.
2. Also, "an expert on blacks and their culture..." What a stupidly racist thing to say! "Blacks and their culture..." Good Lord, have mercy on your old white soul.
3. I AM able to listen to black people individually and I do so, AND I'm able to see the polls and know that the majority dare to disagree with Massa Glenn.
4. That I recognize reality and don't dare to say to the majority of black people, "You all are wrong, you should listen to me, I know better than you do..." is NOT saying I'm an expert. It's demonstrating that I'm listening.
You should do the same, white boys. Grow up. Act like an adult. Reason like an adult. Give up your white supremacist/privileged thinking.
Repent.
Marshal... " They won't consider what behaviors of theirs played any roll in their "experiences" because they have the "white supremacist""
A God Damned arrogant bigot speaks. Blaming the victim has been one of the tools of the KKK and racists through centuries. That and resorting to calling them communists.
You are on the side of the KKK. They're cheering you and your idiot words on.
God have mercy on your soul.
Glenn,
feo has an imaginary black wife, so he's down with the cause. He tries to post here knowing he's caused his own banishment with infantile behavior of the type you describe. Then he posts the same comment at Dan's, so if one cares to know what he "thinks" ("think" being something in which he's not really as expert as he likes to believe), one can find his drivel there.
In the meantime, Dan does his best Hillary Clinton impression:
"Lawdy, Lawdy, if ONLY the majority of black people would lissen to the wise words of Massa Marshal and his toady, Glenn!"
Talk about being an embarrassment to one's self and family!! But he won't repent because he isn't really a Christian.
"You ARE saying you're smarter, not as gullible, not as easily duped as the vast majority of black people."
Now that you mention it, I guess I am, though I don't know about the "vast majority" bit you like to pretend is based on anything but your desperate desire that YOU'RE possessed of absolutely truth. Show me you polling to back that "vast majority" crap up, while I remind you that if ALL blacks believed what you want us to believe your cherry-picked examples believe, that wouldn't make it true.
"Do you NOT SEE how racist and white-privileged this is?!"
No, because truth doesn't, either. Truth is true regardless of who is speaking it and who's denying it. (I'm of the former and you're clearly of the latter.)
"Repent of your white arrogance."
If I had any, I might. But you certainly do and it's the type Riley wishes you'd stifle for the good of the black community.
"1. I never said I was an expert on "blacks and their culture..." This is a stupidly false claim. There's NOTHING TO SUPPORT it."
Nothing but your criticisms of our positions on the issue which indicates you believe you're possessed of superior knowledge...a definite sort of expertise.
"2. Also, "an expert on blacks and their culture..." What a stupidly racist thing to say! "Blacks and their culture..." Good Lord, have mercy on your old white soul."
How is that "stupidly racist" when it's what you're doing, pretending you are knowledgeable on that refuted by those like Sowell, Williams, Elder, Riley and so many others?
"3. I AM able to listen to black people individually and I do so, AND I'm able to see the polls and know that the majority dare to disagree with Massa Glenn."
We listen to the same people to whom you listen and others to whom you lend no ear. The latter are those who are smarter, not as gullible, not as easily duped as the vast majority of black people.
"4. That I recognize reality and don't dare to say to the majority of black people, "You all are wrong, you should listen to me, I know better than you do..." is NOT saying I'm an expert. It's demonstrating that I'm listening."
First, you have a sorry understanding of reality. It's been obvious for years and yet you laughingly insist your grasp of it is firm. It's not reality you're grasping.
Secondly, I suggest they listen to any of those far more intelligent people I've listed above who do indeed have a far better understanding of reality than either you or those you won't dare to criticize, pretending because they speak they speak truth.
Thirdly, we listen, too. What they say doesn't jibe with truth and reality. For example, they aren't singled out on the basis of their race, but on the basis of those of their race who have compelled others to be suspicious of them. When one of their own asserts he feels relieved that the footsteps he hears behind him at night don't belong to a black person, what does that tell you? They're suspicious of themselves as well.
Another example, they're no more likely to be shot by cops than anyone else, and those cops more likely to shoot them are black cops. Both of these examples are backed up by stats.
These examples...and I can produce much more...are examples of reality.
"You should do the same, white boys. Grow up. Act like an adult. Reason like an adult. Give up your white supremacist/privileged thinking."
Do the same as you? Perish the thought! I prefer to continue striving to be a good Christian (an actual Christian, not a fake "progressive" christian like you) and a good American adult. You should give up your racism/white guilt and turn to Christ.
"A God Damned arrogant bigot speaks."
I asked you numerous times not to use that term here. Your hypocrisy and anti-Christian self is exposed yet again. You whine about my appropriate use of the terms, "whore" or "slut"...terms which have no negative aspect except for the behaviors of women who are either or both. Here, and elsewhere, you believe you're justified in taking the Lord's name in vain, dropping F-bombs and then having the blasphemous argument you're modeling Christ. I leave it for all to see the corrupt nature of your character.
Then of course you libel me with this abject falsehood. I'm not a bigot because my position differs from yours, though you demonstrate your racism constantly in your weak attempts to portray yourself as the champion of the black race. Like all such lefties, you denigrate them by your piss-poor view of them.
"Blaming the victim has been one of the tools of the KKK and racists through centuries."
This, too, is a lie. If you are one to drink heavily, your cirrhosis is your fault because it's clear one can tie your behavior to the consequence of it. But you use that "victim blaming" crap as an attack on those who speak truthfully, or at least sincerely about why one finds one's self in the position one does. Take that crap somewhere else, like to your own litter box. It doesn't sail on these waters. Your attempt to tie me to those of your political party is another indication of your willingness to intentionally lie. You need to try to actually defend your position, rather than attack my character because mine is true.
"You are on the side of the KKK. They're cheering you and your idiot words on."
I don't care what Democrats say. You're all liars. What I say merely echoes the words of truly intelligent black people you ignore. Your Klan doesn't cheer them on.
"God have mercy on your soul."
I trust He will. I won't place any wagers He'll do as much for you. Not while you remain so firmly and adamantly in rebellion.
So...do you have anything intelligent to offer here?
Trabue,
I'm no one's toady, you stupid, ignorant fool. I've been "preaching" conservative/rational ideology for decades and haven't changed my beliefs since becoming a Christian 48 years ago.
You are a pawn of the LEFT and unable to think for yourself; you just regurgitae LEFTIST ideology.
Glenn... "I find it hilarious that Trabue considers himself an expert on blacks and their culture and Jews and their culture."
1. I never said I was an expert on "blacks and their culture..." This is a stupidly false claim. There's NOTHING TO SUPPORT it.
Your consistent claims that no conservative, especially Art and Me here (and sometimes some others on Art's posts) has any idea about blacks implies that you are an expert to be consulted on the topic.
2. Also, "an expert on blacks and their culture..." What a stupidly racist thing to say! "Blacks and their culture..." Good Lord, have mercy on your old white soul.
Why is racist to point out that there is a culture among American blacks who are not conservative. That culture is violence, no fathers in the home, highest abortion rates, highest crime rates, etc. Those are the statistics proven over and over again in regards to those who subsist on government handouts. They demand "affirmative action," lowering of standards in school/college so as to be able to pass courses. And if you are a conservative blake then you get labeled as the "black face of white supremacy." They play victim and are raised to be victims, and raised to be racists against "whites."
3. I AM able to listen to black people individually and I do so, AND I'm able to see the polls and know that the majority dare to disagree with Massa Glenn.
So, no one here but YOU are able to listen to those with a darker colored skin? Your derogatory term of "massa" just shows your stupidy as well as YOUR racism.
4. That I recognize reality and don't dare to say to the majority of black people, "You all are wrong, you should listen to me, I know better than you do..." is NOT saying I'm an expert. It's demonstrating that I'm listening.
When the majority IS wrong when you listen to them, not telling them the truth about their situations and why their choices put them where they are is not showing Christian love, rather it panders to their poor choices.
You should do the same, white boys. Grow up. Act like an adult. Reason like an adult. Give up your white supremacist/privileged thinking.
Repent.
There's the typical irrational LEFTIST response to factual information. WE are the adults, you are the irrational one. Every conservative is being labeled by the LEFT as being "white supremicist" when in reality that type of person is few and far between. Oh, but disagree with LEFTIST propaganda about blacks and suddenly you are a white supremicist. Oh, and also anyone not black suddenly has "priviledge." Proving once again your abject stupidity and ignorance, as well is your indoctrination by the media and other LEFTISTS. I have nothing to repent of in regards to race relations. YOU do. By the way, in my 60+ years of adult life I've run into very few racist white people but I've run into many, many racist blacks. But racism with blacks is never discussed by the LEFT.
By the way, remember that the KKK was/is a Demokrat organization, and the Demokrats have been racist ever since.
Great quotation I read today:
Like the Democratic Party historically, the left is racist. And it is so in precisely the way the word was always used — the Left believes in black inferiority. That is why leftists advocate lowering standards for blacks. That is why they advocate policies that always result in more blacks dying at the hands of other blacks. That is why they believe the state must take care of blacks more than any other group. That is why left-wing policies, from the Great Society to today, have destroyed so much of black life, especially its family life — and they don’t care.
It's really sad a real conversation can't be had with Dan and his troll. They're too invested in pushing their fake narrative without actually arguing in defense of it, or against our position. It's easier for them, in typical leftist fashion, to accuse us of racism or some undefined "white supremacy" than to provide actual evidence to support their fantasies.
The fact is that there is nothing we present which we ourselves do not live...at least to the extent we do not seek out excuses for that which is clearly the result of our own choices and actions. Yet, somehow, for those blacks Dan finds so compelling, it's all about racism and oppression when life is not what is demanded by them. Here's yet another example of the reality which negates Dan's nonsense...the nonsense of those "lived experiences":
According to Thomas Sowell, there are schools with majority black student populations which also provide space for charter school programs for other black students, which by virtue of the accommodations, are equally limited in terms of resources. What separates the failing grades of the regular student population with that of the stellar grades of the charter school population is the expectations put upon the charter school to which the students meet. They have parents which are involved with their kids' lives and set priorities which the kids also abide. Same building, same resources, different outcomes based on expectations and behavior.
Another minority group further proves the point: Asians. They're scholastic achievements as a population is superior to all other racial/ethnic groups. The reason is the same: expectations are higher and parents are there to make sure the kids understand why they must work hard. In each of these two examples, nothing is given, but everything is earned. Kids graduate and move on to other expectations. The result is a more comfortable life for those who are not gunned down by those who waste their opportunities while crying they're oppressed by "the man".
Finally, feo whines I'm erasing his wife. Not so. I simply don't believe any woman...black, white, green, etc....would suffer a fool such as feo. What must be wrong with a woman who would? I believe he merely pretends he's married to a black woman in hopes it will convince anyone he has insights into the black community which makes him more informed and thus someone to whom anyone should listen. But he does nothing more than to spew the very lies about which better men (the aformentioned Sowell, Williams et al) debunk with facts, data and evidence.
But the funniest part is feo believing I'm somehow "afraid" to "face" him. Yet when he had his sorry blog and actually posted there, he denied me the very confrontation he claims I now fear. This is evidence of his intentional lying. I refuse him access here due to his infantile behavior in the past, which he visited upon both Craig and Glenn as well instead of maturity and a reasoned argument. Not getting the not so subtle hint, he continues his attempts to post here, showing up like a foul odor wafting in from nearby water treatment plant or landfill. Believe what you like sad feo. You've proven yourself not worth the time of day and as such you'll continue to be on the outside looking in without anyone caring but you and your imaginary wife.
Marshal, you saying that you're smarter than the majority of black people IS a foolish and vulgar arrogance, at best, and almost certainly racist. Whether or not you know it.
And you say you weren't saying you were smarter than most black people, then admitting it without a hint of shame, is just an indictment on your arrogance and dishonesty.
Glenn... "I've been "preaching" conservative/rational ideology for decades and haven't changed my beliefs since becoming a Christian 48 years ago.
You are a pawn of the LEFT and unable to think for yourself; you just regurgitae LEFTIST ideology."
I WAS a conservative as you claim to be now (although not as foolish, petty, racist, irrational or arrogant as you are). I grew up. I listened to those teachings of my conservative teachers to follow Jesus' teachings, take them seriously, to hold to them whatever the consequences... and that led me away from conservatism as it existed back then, and certainly the vulgar, vain and arrogantly pompous version of modern "conservatism" today. If you don't like my belief systems, blame it on the good conservatives. They taught me to believe this way, even though they reject me now.
Speaking of arrogance and irrationality, Glenn...
"Your consistent claims that no conservative, especially Art and Me here (and sometimes some others on Art's posts) has any idea about blacks implies"
And yet, I've NOT MADE ONE SUCH CLAIM.
YOU can not provide a quote where I ever said this, nor where I implied it. And your vulgar, irrational and emotionally fragile white arrogance won't even let you admit it, while at the same time, you can't and won't even try to support this false witness.
Thou shalt not bear false witness. Thou shalt not slander. None of these biblical words have a single meaning to you... you, right along with modern Trump-style vulgar "conservatism" gives a damn about honesty or integrity. Does it not shame you no end that your conservatism has come to be defined by the single most vulgar, indecent, sexually predatory liar in modern history (as it relates to politicians, anyway)?
You all bring shame, so much shame, to your emotionally fragile, cowardly and irrational modern conservatism. It's just pathetic.
Glenn, in a moment of clearly overt racism and hatred of black people, said...
"Why is racist to point out that there is a culture among American blacks who are not conservative. That culture is violence, no fathers in the home, highest abortion rates, highest crime rates, etc."
Go to black people and ask them. But you won't. You're a bigoted coward.
As to your racist attacks on black people, suggesting they're incapable of receiving assistance without becoming dependent on it, you're believing lies passed on by racists.
Open your eyes. Quit listening to the KKK and their allies, bigot.
https://newrepublic.com/article/154404/myth-welfare-queen
https://www.womenslawproject.org/2010/11/02/debunking-the-myth-of-the-welfare-queen-who-actually-receives-tanf-benefits/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/13/news-media-offers-consistently-warped-portrayals-of-black-families-study-finds/
https://www.businessinsider.com/welfare-policy-created-white-wealth-largely-leaving-black-americans-behind-2020-8
Quit living in fear of facts. Educate yourself.
Here's a simple question for you, Marshal (and Glenn)...
Did you believe that social assistance programs were a trap that "enslaved" recipients including black folk... did you already hold that belief and THEN you found some black people who agreed with what you already thought in your white privilege... OR, were you skeptical that social assistance were anything but helpful but THEN read what experts had to say - including black people - and they changed your opinion?
But then, we already know the answer to this question.
Finding black people who agree with you is an afterthought for you all and other racists.
"Marshal, you saying that you're smarter than the majority of black people IS a foolish and vulgar arrogance, at best, and almost certainly racist. Whether or not you know it."
No. I'm responding to YOU saying I think I'm smarter than "the majority of black people". By your understanding, that's absolutely true. But then, I have no polling data presenting me with a definitive list of things "the majority of black people" believe, nor have you presented anything other than YOUR "hunch" that what you believe is true is that which some undefined "majority of black people" believe as well. As of 2019, that's about 42 million people. How can you be certain you speak for the majority of them (that would be at least 21,000001 people)? Where's your polling data?
No. You speak for some percentage of people with whom you have personal experience, as well as particular people who are publicized as being typical by media with the same white-guilt defect as you have, regardless of whether they're truly typical or not. In the meantime, you ignore, dismiss or outright reject those black people who reject that crap.
In the meantime, I'm not worrying about what anyone in particular says without also examining what they say and comparing it to facts of life and how life is lived. Certain realities come quickly to the fore and those that do belie what they say. That's not necessarily a matter of being smarter, but honest. Again, those issues are not unique to any one racial or ethnic group. Thomas Sowell speaks of a section of London in which all the same stories are told, all the same "life experiences". The difference is it's white people saying there. Thus, my understanding is based on more than just "listening to black voices" as if that means what one hears is true, factual and/or reality. It is the perception of those speaking tainted by their own beliefs and understandings, regardless of how sincere they may be....assuming they're sincere at all.
As such, nothing I say is racist, unless by "racist" you mean any expressed opinion which differs from yours or those you arrogantly believe you're championing. Truth, facts, data, reality...these things are not racist unless they conflict with the narrative you/they prefer to tell.
"I WAS a conservative as you claim to be now...."
You keep saying this. It is not true. Nothing you say these days suggests any understanding you know what the word means. Thus, I see it as an intentional lie. There's no way we can assess the "good conservatives" you think raised you as being any less idiotic than you are now. There's no way we can assess how they expressed their conservatism and if you patterned yourself in the same way. I'd wager you had no idea what they were talking about, but regarded yourself as conservative anyway. Again, nothing you've ever said in all the years we've engaged in discourse demonstrates any understanding of conservatism at all. The very thought of you ever being conservative is laughable.
"And yet, I've NOT MADE ONE SUCH CLAIM."
In not so many words, yet you continuously criticize our thoughts and opinions on the issues of the black community we discuss. So, you're lying again. Your criticisms imply expertise which informs you of "how wrong we are". Of course, you can't explain how except that you're sure we're racist and arrogant to dare have an opinion of some black people which isn't glowing. This suggests abject ignorance since pitching the race card is all you seem to do. But one thing is certain, if we don't simply "listen to black voices" without thinking, then we're racist and arrogant. Of that you're absolutely sure.
"You all bring shame, so much shame, to your emotionally fragile, cowardly and irrational modern conservatism. It's just pathetic."
No doubt you need to think so. But the assertions of an emotionally fragile, cowardly and irrational and dishonesty progressive has no value to honest people who actually think. You're cowardice is displayed by your "listening to black voices" and assuming it's absolute truth. It may well be. But we don't assume such things when what they say indicts other people in explaining their woes. No. We need to see evidence. Sue us. "Emotionally fragile, cowardly and irrational modern conservatism". I doubt you can even explain what the hell that's supposed to mean!
"Glenn, in a moment of clearly overt racism and hatred of black people, said...
"Why is racist to point out that there is a culture among American blacks who are not conservative. That culture is violence, no fathers in the home, highest abortion rates, highest crime rates, etc.""
Here again you regard truth and reality as racism and hatred. Are you truly suggesting there is NOT a segment of the black population in which violence, father-less kids, high abortion rates and high crime rates is not a reality? Are you truly suggesting that these are not Democrat voters, but are conservatives who vote Republican? Is this now when you're not so keen on believing "experts", such as law enforcement stats? I wouldn't be at all surprised!
"Quit living in fear of facts. Educate yourself."
I do that all the time, as I'm sure Glenn, Craig, Stan and other smarter than you people have done to become smarter than you. Indeed, I chose your WaPo link to begin seeing what you believe constitutes "education" and unlike you, went to the actual report it thinks makes some point about fallacious reporting about black people. The report is some 71 or so pages and by page six, there's no doubt it's the usual crap (I've bookmarked it to read the whole thing). It begins with a constantly corrupted by the left Lee Atwater quote. The left loves this quote taken entirely out of context from the discussion in which it came and they use it to portray Atwater as having said something he wasn't saying at all...so they can say he's a racist working on behalf of racist Reagan. Not a good way to start a report about false reporting. No more than a page away, it references having played a major roll in getting Bill O'Reilly removed from the air. Well...as I recall, he wasn't canned for bad, malicious or false reporting, but for some sex scandal. Again, not cool in a report about false reporting.
Getting as far as I had before setting it aside to get back to this, with all which came before the actual report, there's a lot about "getting it wrong" about black families, bad black fathers and crime rates. Lots of assertions I hope the report itself will back up. But to this point, I've noticed percentages of which they speak being of the whole of the population as opposed to representation. That is, if blacks are responsible for 27% of violent crime (not an actual figure, but just for illustration purposes) but make up only 13% of the total population, they are over represented in violent crime statistics. Whites may be responsible for 35% of violent crime, but make up a far greater percentage of the total population than 35%. This detail is important...incredibly so...and we'll see if it's addressed later in the report.
Also, when they speak of media reports, there's a concern about context which must be addressed. That is, if a story of a black family is presented, and it is one of the many about which this reports suggests is influential in distorting public perceptions, the details of the story are significant in why it was chosen by the media to present.
Anyway, we'll see how this report progresses and whether or not it's clear bias taints it's conclusions. I'm not confident. I'm also not confident Dan studied it at all. Indeed, his first two links are about welfare queens. I'm pretty certain that the term was corrupted by leftists to disparage Reagan, who coined the term, as a racist. But "welfare queens" are not only black women, so that's a crock right there. Glenn mentioning government aid is not racist if it's happening. No matter how badly you need it to be.
Marshal... "You keep saying this. It is not true. Nothing you say these days suggests any understanding you know what the word means. Thus, I see it as an intentional lie."
You keep ENDLESSLY saying it. IT IS NOT TRUE. You have NEVER been able to point to ONE SINGLE area of conservatism that I'm not understanding or didn't understand back in the day. NOT ONE. It is a stupidly false claim that you make based on nothing but fear, cowardice and an inability to converse in a rational adult manner.
If you can't support this endlessly false claim that you continually make, then stop bearing false witness and apologize for your stupidly false claim. It IS an intentional lie.
You live in fear that people can be conservative and have their views change... but your fear is not reality. You're emotionally fragile and you need to grow up.
"Here's a simple question for you, Marshal (and Glenn)..."
What followed was a simple-minded question and of course, designed to elicit the type of response the liar needs to pretend he's "won". It's not a serious question in the least.
I was raised in a time when going on the dole was a cause of shame. No one who took government handouts wanted anyone to know about it. While I had to go on unemployment more than once in order to pay bills, I hated it and couldn't wait to find a new gig.
It's not the same these days. I know white people who are more than happy to "play the system" and we've seen millions stay at home with the covid checks rather than go back to work when the opportunity presented itself. To pretend the concept of government assistance becoming a trap for some people, including black people, is false is stupidity of the highest order...so pretty much expected of you.
So while you think it's a "white privilege" thing...which is also abject stupidity...I acknowledge with no qualms that sucking at the government teat is not a black or white thing. But if the issue is the condition of the black population, apparently emotionally fragile cowards like you can't deal with that aspect of their problems. No. It can only be racism and white privilege which explains their plight, right Sally?
And when I speak of brilliant black conservatives (the only truly brilliant black people are conservative, just like for whites, Asians and other groups), it is also in the context of speaking of the condition of the black community.
I've always believed that there's a true need for assistance, be it government or charity...though I believe charity is better, as government generally has no constitutional mandate for it and it needs to stay in its lane. I still believe it's the case. That's not the issue and never was. The issue is the abuse of it as well as the over-dependence on it by some. No one, black or white, has changed my position on the subject of assistance.
"Finding black people who agree with you is an afterthought for you all and other racists."
A fine example of leftist projection. That's EXACTLY what you do as evidenced by your links. The black people with whom I'm in agreement have actual facts and data to support the positions on which we agree. Those YOU find simply use racism as an excuse to explain the woes of those about whom they pretend to care...just like you've been doing in your comments here and elsewhere.
Here's another black voice you'll dismiss because it doesn't validate your racism. It's from ten years ago and I submit that little has changed regarding myths onto which YOUR black voices hold so tightly. It feels far worse than ten years ago because of assholes like you and the assholes you think are working to better the lot of the black community but aren't...like the marxist, racist BLM assholes. So read it. It's a black person speaking of the problems in his own community and why things are as they are:
https://www.city-journal.org/html/what%E2%80%99s-holding-blacks-back-12025.html
So, you won't answer the question directly. Typical intellectual cowardice that one might expect from racists too ashamed to own their racism. Today's so-called "conservatives" are way too often intellectual lightweights, emotionally fragile and unable to withstand or even acknowledge rational adult questions.
It's a shame.
"You live in fear that people can be conservative and have their views change... but your fear is not reality."
I have no such fear, and don't know why you need so desperately to believe I'm fearful of such a thing. Indeed, the likelihood of an actual, true conservative becoming a (*snicker*) "progressive" is hilariously low. It would require a total rejection of truth, facts, logic and reason. But here's some fact for you: While you whine about my rejecting the laughable notion you were ever conservative, you've never provided any evidence that you understand what conservatives are all about. You insistence on attaching racism to those like myself, Glenn, Trump or any other right-leaning person is but one piece of evidence that you're totally lacking in understanding on the subject.
And throughout all your panty-wetting about my calling you out on this absurdity, you do nothing to prove you have any clue.
You were never conservative.
You have no understanding of conservatism.
"Today's so-called "conservatives" are way too often intellectual lightweights, emotionally fragile and unable to withstand or even acknowledge rational adult questions."
Oh! That was an "adult" question? You have as poor an understanding of what an "adult" anything is as you do your poor understanding of conservatism.
In any case, asshat, I totally and comprehensively answered your bullshit question. But you're way to much of an intellectual lightweight, emotionally fragile and racist to accept so detailed an answer...or just plainly too stupid. Either one works for me. Either one is equally true of you.
Oh, by the way....if you truly believe that's what today's conservatives are, then you've again validated my fact that you have no idea about conservatism. Thanks.
Trabue's irrational, lying, ignorant, racist, stupid, foolish comments aren't even worth my responding to any more. He is an unteachable idiot.
That's not news, Glenn. It's long been understood.
Marshal... "You were never conservative."
Prove it. THAT's what I mean by having a rational adult conversation. IF you want to make a ridiculously stupidly false claim like this (in spite of ALL the evidence... not all of which you even know), then support your claim.
Rational adults don't make empty and unsupported claims... especially when the facts are so heavily weighted against the stupidly false claims.
But modern, irrational, emotionally fragile, adolescent Trump-type conservatives do.
You want to show I'm mistaken? Then SHOW me. Support the claim.
You won't because you can't and you can't because the facts are I was raised in a traditional Southern Baptist church in a very traditional conservative world.
I was raised to believe that abortion was wrong because it kills an innocent life created in the image of God... Is that a wrong understanding of conservative views on abortion?
I was raised to believe that the Bible was the inerrant word of God... Is that a wrong understanding of conservative views on the Bible?
I was raised to believe in a literal Adam and literal Eve, literally created by God as described in Genesis, just as the world was created fairly literally as described in Genesis... Is that a wrong understanding of conservative views on Creation?
Come on. Act like an adult and support your claim or have the intellectual honesty and bravery to admit you can't support your claim because it was false... and then apologize. That's how adults hold discussions.
The ball is in your court.
And just to preempt the typical Marshal response ("I've already proved it!"), I'm saying, NO, you haven't. Produce SOME QUOTE FROM ME that demonstrates that I don't understand some (much less multiple??) element of conservatism in some significant way.
IF you don't produce some support for this repeated false claim, then it will be obvious that you can't.
Also, the "You have no understanding of conservatism..." is demonstrably false.
I understand that conservatives are opposed to abortion for the reasons I've stated (among others).
I understand that conservative evangelical Christians tend to take the Bible inerrantly.
I understand that conservative evangelical Christians tend to take the Creation story in Genesis fairly literally.
I understand that conservative evangelical Christians tend to think we should say God THE FATHER, specifically, because that is how the Bible describes God.
I understand that conservative evangelical Christians tend to believe in the Penal Substitutionary theory of Atonement (whether or not they name that theory)...
...that they believe that humans are sinners from birth (sort of literally... although they can't really support it)
...that humans are under a penalty of death/eternal punishment apart from God's forgiveness and grace...
...that Jesus came to "pay the price" for our sins, "taking the punishment" for human sinners and "shedding his blood" in our place, because we have no hope for salvation apart from this shedding of blood...
...that sinners WHO GOD CALLS can be saved if they "accept" this "gift" and repent of their sins and invite Jesus to be the Lord of their lives...
...and that everyone else, all the other sinners who don't do this process/aren't "called by God" to receive this gift, will be punished harshly for an eternity in "hell..." however that is defined (and it differs somewhat from conservative evangelical to conservative evangelical, but the point is eternal torment or unpleasantness)
I understand that modern conservative evangelical Christians tend to be distrustful of government... especially of Democrats and liberals... and of "the media" believing them to be some version of an "enemy of the state..."
I understand that conservative evangelical Christians tend to believe that the US is an "exceptional nation" because we have traditionally been a "christian nation" and that this has set us apart. Therefore, conservatives tend to believe in traditions and values they grew up with... believing that modern people are "dwarfs standing on the shoulders of giants..."
I could go on and on, pointing out things that I understand correctly about conservatism. This demonstrates that your claim that I have no understanding of conservatism is objectively stupidly false.
Do you recognize that now?
Marshal... survey results and other insights that show I'm listening to what the majority of black folks are saying and what they report their lived experiences are. You may be fine with dismissing majority opinion and reports. I take these opinions and lived experiences seriously. I could go on for days with this sort of data. Do you seriously doubt that I'm mistaken about what the data shows black people are saying?
https://morningconsult.com/2021/11/22/rittenhouse-verdict-poll/
https://www.kff.org/report-section/survey-of-americans-on-race-section-2-inequities-in-the-criminal-justice-system-and-recent-unrest/
https://naacp.org/resources/criminal-justice-fact-sheet
https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/
https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/press-release/poll-7-in-10-black-americans-say-they-have-experienced-incidents-of-discrimination-or-police-mistreatment-in-lifetime-including-nearly-half-who-felt-lives-were-in-danger/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/582552-naacp-president-says-its-hard-for-african-americans-to-reconcile%3famp
I'm not going to wade through this entire thread, but I'll point out two things from Dan's initial comment.
1. The mother from Dan's random and out of context quote implies that it's ONLY white people who treat her daughters differently, I suspect that that treatment crosses racial lines.
2. BOTH the Rittenhouse and Arbury cases were decided correctly. If you simply look at the facts and evidence in each case, without trying to overlay a racial component, it's not difficult to see that justice was served in both cases.
"You white boys insisting you know better than the majority of black and Jewish people (and, presumably, LGBTQ folks) is the epitome of white privilege and arrogance, racism and antisemitism."
Another bullshit claim, with absolutely no pretense of proof.
As far as danger to black children, I'd be willing to bet that black children are in much greater danger (if one believes the statistical analysis of crime in the US) from fellow black folk, than they are from white folk.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/11/30/22810541/more-than-1000-people-have-been-murdered-in-cook-county-this-year-the-most-since-1994
It's amusing to watch Dan pontificate about "bearing false witness" and proving one's claims when he's so frequently prone to do both of those things.
I've pointed out one instance here, and another at my blog. 2 claims made withing the past week or so, neither with proof.
Craig... "It's amusing to watch Dan pontificate about "bearing false witness" and proving one's claims when he's so frequently prone to do both of those things."
And yet, you cannot point to a single thing where I have borne false witness. You can't do it. I've asked you all to do it in the past and you pass every time on actually supporting the empty claim.
You you don't even try to make the case. You just say, "oh you bear false witness, all right!" ...but never point to any specific quotes where it happens.
You don't do it because you can't do it because I have not born false witness in our conversations. It is a stupidly false claim.
Case in point, Marshal makes a stupidly false claim that I was not ever a conservative. The facts facts of the reality is that I was raised in a traditional conservative Southern Baptist church. That's just the fact. I was raised in conservative churches for the first 24 years of my life. I believed all the traditional conservative beliefs. I was, by definition, a conservative and I understood and understand conservative beliefs.
Thus, it is an objectively and provably stupidly false claim for Marshal to make.It is not deniable that it is a false claim. The facts are the facts. I have proven it by pointing to reality. I have proven it by pointing to typical conservative beliefs that I correctly identify as conservative beliefs. It's just a false claim.
You all have not done this for any of my quotes.
And Craig, you say you've pointed out one instance here. Where? I see nothing.
Do you see the difference between me showing objectively why Marshall's claim is false is different than you merely saying then you merely saying "I've already pointed out one instance here..."?
A claim by itself is meaningless.
Trabue: And yet, you cannot point to a single thing where I have borne false witness
Every time Trabue calls any of us a racist, a bigot, that we are arrogant, and have a hatred of black people, he is bearing false witness against us.
I haven't looked at all your polling data, just as I haven't had the time to look at all your other links, which no doubt fail as badly as that which I've read thus far. With regard to the polls, you ignore two very important facts:
1. Polls can only provide info regarding those who respond to the polls. While pollsters like to pretend they're representative of the nation as a whole, I've never seen anything that actually proves this is true. That would require polling everybody, which doesn't even happen during national elections.
2. If we pretend the results are indeed indicative of national sentiment, the polls you provide to bolster your position simply becomes an example of "the appeal to numbers" logical fallacy. It doesn't make anything the majority believes true. So if some percentage believes, say, cops arrest blacks more often, that doesn't mean it actually happens and thus the belief is fallacious and one must look elsewhere to explain the belief. My most recent link does just that. It's an ingrained belief passed down from previous generations. And while the first generation may have been accurate in their beliefs at the time, at this point in time it isn't necessarily true any longer, despite so many believing it is.
Here's a third fact: Those false beliefs don't include details to inform the listener of why the belief is held. If I say my kid was treated differently than the other kids, that may or may not be true, but it says nothing about what my kids were doing versus how other kids have been acting. My kid may indeed deserve different treatment because of past history, the degree to which my kid misbehaved, and a host of other variables which makes the "treated differently" whine misleading...even if not intended to be so. Side note: this is how conservatives consider these complaints. We don't deny the party believes the belief, but we're not influenced by mere pronouncement of the belief. It's a claim...and assertion...which isn't supported by anything but the belief it is true.
A final thought on those beliefs (for now). That and the polling don't address the elephant in the room, which is that the difference in treatment is associated with a decidedly immoral or criminal act. Instead of whining that one's kid was incarcerated for a crime a white kid wasn't, the focus should be on the crime committed by the incarcerated kid. That whine also doesn't take into consideration the full list of details which may be markedly different from the one kid to the other, the ability of the legal defense team, the evidence and testimonies presented, etc.
With regard to "proving" my opinion that Dan isn't and never was a conservative, I'm not obligated to prove anything. Yet, I point it out when Dan proves it by his words. His objections to our positions on the topic on the table is evidence that bears it out. His constant reference to race and privilege proves the point. His list doesn't prove the contrary because they're just "talking points" or what he believes confirms one's conservative bona fides. But it's not enough to say, "I'm conservative because I believe XYZ". Each of those points requires a deeper dive to discern how those beliefs were manifested. For example, Dan pretends he's a Christian and has listed numerous positions he believes is typical of a Christian. But does his words and opinions truly align with those essential doctrines? Not generally.
So I will not respond to his whining response to my opinion. I will await each attempt by him to prove otherwise and explain why it doesn't prove a damned thing.
As to apologies, I left my apology at his blog.
Coward.
You claimed, "Dan was not a conservative... Dan doesn't understand conservatism at all..."
I cite beliefs that objectively demonstrate that I understand conservative talking points. I point to the reality of my upbringing at VMBC in Louisville, KY, a very conservative Southern Baptist congregation. These objectively demolish you're stupidly false claims.
YOU claim "Dan was not a conservative... Dan doesn't understand conservatism at all..."
...and YOU CITE NOTHING to support this stupid as vomit claim. You're an intellectual coward. You undermine your own credibility by this unending dodge in the face of cold stone hard facts.
You've lost.
Go home. Go cry to your wife and children if you want to further embarrass yourself. You are the reason that modern conservatism can't stand. Your constant false claims that don't even pretend to be intelligent or supported by anything more than your empty, sad, pathetic claims.
You are a childish coward. Shame on you.
Open your eyes to your shame.
You don't support your claims because you CAN'T support your claims because they are stupidly false. You demonstrate this with your every refusal to even pretend to support your claims.
Shame on you.
"You are the reason that modern conservatism can't stand."
Really? How so? Because you say so? This again demonstrates a poor understanding of conservatism. Again, having attended an allegedly conservative church, having been raised by allegedly conservative parents...these things prove nothing about your capability of understanding. It doesn't indicate those people were good or true conservatives, that they imparted conservative concepts in a manner small-brained people like you could pick it up, etc.
And once again, to continually accuse me, Glenn, Craig, Trump, Bush or any other right-leaning person of racism because they don't agree with your white-guilt distortions of the reasons for the woes in the black community is a clear demonstration of your lack of understanding. And unlike your current whining about what I fail to do, you've never provided one shred of evidence that any of us are racist, "privileged" because of our race or that we bear the least amount of animus or condescension toward black people in any way.
You haven't proven any flaw in our positions. Rote recitations of general concepts some attribute to conservatives is not proof you understand the philosophy of conservatism or those who promote it.
I will say this, however: You throw one helluva girly tantrum!
Marshal... "Really? How so? Because you say so?"
No. I literally just said. Modern Trump-style conservatism can not stand because...
1. They (you) make up false claims on a whim, as if stating something makes it so
2. They (you) make up STUPIDLY false claims like "the media is an enemy of the state" or "Dan was not a conservative young man and doesn't understand conservatism in any way..." these are claims that regularly go unsupported and that's because they're not only false, but stupidly false... easily demonstrated to be false. They are empty, know-nothing assertions meant to rant or rally support, but not engage in honest discussion.
3. You don't even TRY to support the claims. Of course, you don't try because you can't support it because it's a ridiculously false claim with nothing TO support it.
Rational adults don't engage in these approaches as a matter of conversation... we may do so in a rant or to complain with our comrades about the sometimes irrationality of the Other, but not in a good will conversation with the Other.
I've oft-provided the indisputable facts that demonstrate I was both raised in a conservative church and WAS that kind of conservative for the first ~25 years of my life and by demonstrating understanding of conservatism.
You've never provided support for your irrational claim beyond something that amounts to... "I can't imagine it ever happening... no one could hold what I view to be irrational claims who was truly raised conservative..." but that's a feeling, a reading INTO the facts something that isn't there beyond your own subjective feelings. It's not indisputable facts like "Dan went to Victory Memorial Baptist until he was 22 and that was a very conservative, very traditional SB church by rational standards..."
My claim is verifiable, factual, objectively provable. Yours is a feeling. Thus, your claims are empty and irrational and objectively false. THAT is why your type of conservatism can not stand.
It can not stand in the face of reason and reality.
Marshal... ". Rote recitations of general concepts some attribute to conservatives is not proof you understand the philosophy of conservatism or those who promote it. "
The TELL me. DEMONSTRATE what in my words is a misunderstanding of conservatism.
Merely STATING that claim is meaningless. It's childish. It's pedantic and ignorant of reality.
You don't have to be like Trump. You can be better. SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM with something specific. Like this...
"Dan, when you say that conservatives are opposed to abortion because they believe it ends the life - kills - a human being created in the image of God and such a killing amounts to murder... you're misunderstanding totally what conservatives are saying. HERE is what you're getting wrong..."
But you can't do that because I'm not mistaken. I DO UNDERSTAND why conservatives are opposed to abortion. I DO understand that much about conservatism.
Do you understand that reality?
"1. They (you) make up false claims on a whim, as if stating something makes it so"
That's funny coming from the guy who thinks God would bless any homosexual union. Talk about a false claim!!
That's funny coming from the guy who claims he was once conservative and understands conservatism. Talk about a false claim!!
That's funny coming from the guy who claims I'm a racist with "white privilege". Talk about a false claim!!
Note the trend here?
"2. They (you) make up STUPIDLY false claims like "the media is an enemy of the state""
Look there!! A stupidly false claim in which you accuse those who assert the leftist media is the enemy of the PEOPLE as having made a "STUPIDLY false claim" which has been supported with numerous examples. How many times did you beloved report that Brian Sicknick was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher by Trump supporters? Talk about a false claim!!
"these are claims that regularly go unsupported"
The fact that you were never conservative and don't understand conservatism is clearly, uh...what's the expression?..."self-evident", particularly given your many comments which bear it out.
"They are empty, know-nothing assertions meant to rant or rally support, but not engage in honest discussion."
No. They're facts expressed to inform others of the truth.
"3. You don't even TRY to support the claims. Of course, you don't try because you can't support it because it's a ridiculously false claim with nothing TO support it."
I've absolutely PROVEN, more than supported the notion, that the leftist media is an enemy of the people. This post is more proof. Past posts have been as well, and I've linked to several articles with dozens of examples which you falsely portray as "mistakes". As to your problems with conservatism, that's an ongoing hobby at this point, as you continue to prove my point, as you've done with your accusations of racism.
"Rational adults don't engage in these approaches as a matter of conversation... we may do so in a rant or to complain with our comrades about the sometimes irrationality of the Other, but not in a good will conversation with the Other."
"Good will conversations" don't result in one party deleting the comments of the other party because of the first party's inability to debunk the points made by the deleted party. They don't result in that one party deleting comments on the basis of whiny, bullshit excuses to do so when the inability to debunk is clear and obvious. Here you do it by deflecting to irrelevant concerns regarding you inability to understand conservatism when the topic of the post is about media malfeasance. What's more, you don't understand what "rational" looks like, either.
"I've oft-provided the indisputable facts that demonstrate I was both raised in a conservative church and WAS that kind of conservative for the first ~25 years of my life and by demonstrating understanding of conservatism."
Your stories indicate no better than some superficial resemblance to conservative talking points. It's very much like your superficial resemblance as regards allegedly being a Christian.
"My claim is verifiable, factual, objectively provable. Yours is a feeling. Thus, your claims are empty and irrational and objectively false. THAT is why your type of conservatism can not stand."
If you say so, Skippy.
Marshal... "Note the trend here?"
Yup. You are making one stupidly false claim after the other without ANY support for them... which you won't provide because you CAN'T provide support because they are stupidly false.
The same precise trend I'm talking about as becoming ever more prevalent in modern Trump-style conservatism.
"The TELL me. DEMONSTRATE what in my words is a misunderstanding of conservatism."
I think I've done that repeatedly, and in this comment section, too. One word: racism. When you apply it to those like me for our support for policies you're too stupid to understand or destroy with an intelligent argument, you demonstrate no understanding of conservatism.
"You don't have to be like Trump. You can be better. SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM with something specific."
First of all, it would be a major step up for you if YOU were like Trump. That's how given over to your corruption you are.
Secondly, we can ALL be better regardless, though you'd be far better a person...and an actual man...if you were like Trump. Then you could move up from there to be like most men.
Thirdly, this conversation is over because I've allowed you enough leash to stray from the yard. Now get back to the topic or get lost. We'll deal with your lack of understanding about conservatism later.
Marshal... " When you apply it to those like me for our support for policies you're too stupid to understand or destroy with an intelligent argument, you demonstrate no understanding of conservatism. "
When YOU make the claim that you are smarter than the vast majority of black people and white people like you (and the few black people who agree with you) are intelligent and everyone else - the majority of black people - are stupid dupes not able to understand what you do, it smacks of arrogance and racism.
Do you understand that? I'm not calling you a racist just for giggles. I'm pointing to something YOU are saying and explaining why it's problematic, from a racism point of view.
Do you understand the difference?
If I said that I'm smarter than 80-90% of Southern Baptists and they are just too stupid to get that they're being duped and not understanding what I understand, then that would smack of religious bigotry. IF I said that. I don't.
And that's the difference between you and me.
Do you understand the difference? Do you understand - not necessarily agree, but do you UNDERSTAND - how to many black people and their allies who dare to disagree with YOUR opinions about racism in their lives and in the US, that they are going to view that as arrogant at best and racist at worst?
That I THINK that your claim on this point is arrogant and best and racist at worst is a reasoned opinion based on YOUR specific words and YOUR specific claims. It's literally not a false claim, it's an opinion, reasonable and understandable to people without an agenda or who are not easily offended with fragile egos.
On the other hand, "Dan wasn't raised as a conservative and has no understanding of conservatism..." is not a reasoned claim and not based on any thing rational. It's just a claim with no support.
WHAT SPECIFICALLY am I not understanding about conservatism? Cite my WORDS and show how THOSE WORDS are a wrong understanding.
You still won't answer because you still can't answer because it's a stupidly false claim and you are too much of a coward to admit it. You've backed yourself into a corner that you can't support and can't be adult enough to just say, "Look, I misspoke. Clearly you DO have some understanding of conservatism. And clearly, you were no doubt raised in a very conservative church and you were a conservative as a young person..."
Admit your mistake. Don't remain an intellectual coward.
Marshal... "First of all, it would be a major step up for you if YOU were like Trump. That's how given over to your corruption you are."
Do you not see the irony and the vulgarity and the dishonesty of comparing people like me to Trump and saying WE are the corrupt ones?! Do you not understand how preposterous and ridiculous and irrational that is?
And I'm not making this about me. I'm no one special. I'm just an average guy who's been married to one woman and faithful to her all my life. I'm just an average guy who has raised a couple of wonderful kids along with my wife and family and extended community. I'm just an average guy who's gone to work everyday and paid my taxes and paid for all the things that I needed to buy and helped support my family and community and church.
Just an average guy who's donated time to help those in need and sided with those in need and worked for policy changes to help those in need, listening to their concerns and needs.
I'm just an average guy who's never declared bankruptcy, much less multiple times... Who's never had one woman accuse me of so much as an inappropriate hug, much less two dozen women accusing me of sexual harassment and sexual assault.
... Just an average guy who respects women and certainly doesn't boast about trying to bed women down and forcing kisses upon them and laughing about it. Who's gone backstage to ogle naked teenage girls, using/abusing my money and privilege to do so.
He has worked with folks with disabilities to help them get jobs and get jobs to give them the dignity of work and a call they have work in accomplishment that they've earned, as opposed to mocking people with disabilities?
It's not about me, but good God, don't you see how ridiculous it is to call me corrupt and hold Trump up as some kind of model citizen? Are you crazy... do you actually believe this garbage?
At the very least, do not see how insanely irrational that is or would sound to normal people?
Marshal... "Thirdly, this conversation is over because..."
It's over because you've talked yourself into a corner, making a stupidly false claim that can't hope to support and you're too embarrassed and too childish to just own up to the mistake. So rather than owning up to it, you're just going to declare it over. We can all see this Marshal.
"...it smacks of arrogance and racism."
Only to a racist like yourself, for whom no legit objection exists. And again, you appeal to the fallacy of numbers, as if it just can't be possible an alleged minority of people can't be correct simply because an alleged majority believes the opposite. And then you dare speak of "adult, good faith" conversation!
/"I'm not calling you a racist just for giggles."
More's the pity.
"I'm pointing to something YOU are saying and explaining why it's problematic, from a racism point of view."
You mean from your racist point of view, which demands total compliance lest one be racist for questioning your race-hustling premises.
"And that's the difference between you and me."
Among the many stark differences between us includes the fact you have no true basis for suggesting you're smarter than anyone.
"Do you understand - not necessarily agree, but do you UNDERSTAND - how to many black people and their allies who dare to disagree with YOUR opinions about racism in their lives and in the US, that they are going to view that as arrogant at best and racist at worst?"
Hardly as noteworthy as having a fact-based reason for doing so. You're simply making derogatory attacks on my character for daring to disagree with your baseless positions. It's another stark difference between us. Your arguments are no more than name-calling. Mine have substance.
"...a reasoned opinion based on YOUR specific words and YOUR specific claims."
Wow. When do we get to see the "reason"? So far you've done no more than to assert my opinion is arrogant and racist because it questions the perceptions of an alleged majority. Appealing to numbers isn't a "reasoned" opinion.
"...it's an opinion, reasonable and understandable to people without an agenda or who are not easily offended with fragile egos."
But you DO have an agenda. You're pushing the false racist agenda of the race hustlers and supporting it with no more than the perceptions of those who blame racism to explain their condition.
"WHAT SPECIFICALLY am I not understanding about conservatism?"
A discussion for another time. But again, your defaulting to racism in response to my position is demonstration enough of your lack of understanding. But enough with that. Stick to the topic of the post. I've made no mistake. You just desperately need to believe so.
"Do you not see the irony and the vulgarity and the dishonesty of comparing people like me to Trump and saying WE are the corrupt ones?! Do you not understand how preposterous and ridiculous and irrational that is?"
Not at all. Your complicity in the murder of millions of unborn alone cannot be erased because you are still married to the only wife you've ever had. Your lies are egregious compared to "lies" of which you accused Trump but as yet haven't provided an example of worse than the many you and your party promote. I can make many more comparisons to dispute your prideful claims of moral superiority over Trump, but again, it would only be feeding your attempt to deflect from the post. While you boast of "helping" people find jobs provided by others, it pales compared to the numbers of jobs Trump has provided through the 500 or so business entities of which he is sole or principle owner, as well as the millions employed because of his fiscal/regulatory policies as president. And proving you're a worse liar than you claim he is, you perpetuate the lie he mocked a person with disabilities as if he was mocking the disability. (Are people with disabilities somehow beyond mocking for expressing stupid opinions now?)
"...don't you see how ridiculous it is to call me corrupt and hold Trump up as some kind of model citizen?"
Again you lie. I've never so much as hinted Trump is an example of a model citizen. But you are most definitely corrupt, and even little lies like this are proof. You lie so effortlessly.
"At the very least, do not see how insanely irrational that is or would sound to normal people?"
You think "transgendered" people are "normal", so it's clear you're just as incapable of understanding what "normal" is, so...But I don't think you should be so confident every abnormal person would agree with you, either.
"It's over because..."
...I've provided enough argument proving my position already in these comments alone (your desperate charge of racism alone proves the point) as well as other places at other times, and no doubt will easily do so moving forward. What's more, it's over because it's off-topic and I've allowed you far too much space to avoid the topic of the post with this deflection. If the roles were reversed, you have deleted all the comments I've allowed thus far. But like the liar you are, you play the victim. Whine at your blog. It's what you do there anyway.
Marshal... " And again, you appeal to the fallacy of numbers, as if it just can't be possible an alleged minority of people can't be correct simply because an alleged majority believes the opposite..."
Not an appeal to any fallacy. IF a large number of experts report the same data/experience, THEN it may well be that those experts are correct.
Think of the "9 out of 10 doctors tell you smoking cigarettes may lead to cancer and they recommend not smoking." IF that's the result of their data and experience and research, THEN maybe you should listen to them.
On racism, IF 9/10 black people report that they experience racism,
THEN it may well be that it's likely that a goodly number ARE experiencing racism.
IF 1/10 black people are reporting that they are NOT experiencing racism,
THEN it may well be that those 1 out of 10 are not experiencing it.
NONETHELESS, that in no way proves or demonstrates that they 9 out of 10 are wrong.
Do you understand that reality?
"84% of African American respondents said black people contend with discrimination a lot or a great deal."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/08/survey-higher-percentage-us-agree-black-people-face-discrimination/3143651001/
"Amid nationwide protests against racial bias in law enforcement and beyond, a new KFF poll finds that the vast majority (71%) of Black Americans say they’ve experienced some form of racial discrimination or mistreatment during their lifetimes – including nearly half (48%) who say at one point that they felt their life was in danger because of their race."
https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/press-release/poll-7-in-10-black-americans-say-they-have-experienced-incidents-of-discrimination-or-police-mistreatment-in-lifetime-including-nearly-half-who-felt-lives-were-in-danger/
"92 Percent Of African-Americans Say Black Americans Face Discrimination Today"
https://www.npr.org/2017/10/24/559889541/92-percent-of-african-americans-say-black-americans-face-discrimination-today
Do you understand that for those 2 out of 10 or 3 out of 10 who don't report racism, that in no way negates the reality of the vast majority? Of millions upon millions of people?
More importantly, do you understand that YOU as a white man, have ZERO support for you telling the vast majority of black Americans that they are wrong? That you personally have never felt like you experienced black people experiencing racism or discrimination doesn't mean jack shit?
Please answer directly.
Marshal... "A discussion for another time. "
Thus demonstrating he's a petty, ignorant coward.
Marshal... " I've never so much as hinted Trump is an example of a model citizen."
You mean you're telling me you're glad to vote for and support a lying pervert who is NOT a model citizen?
How sick. I vote for people who I believe are at least rational and basically decent citizens. You're okay with - GLAD to - vote for an overtly corrupt and dishonest pervert.
The shame of modern "conservatism."
"On racism, IF 9/10 black people report that they experience racism,
THEN it may well be that it's likely that a goodly number ARE experiencing racism."
Just as likely, and maybe more so, is they may well experienced no racism whatsoever, but simply regard racism to be the reason for most or all of their woes. You believe that because any number of black people insist they experienced racism, then by golly they must have and there's no possibility they're just making excuses.
Also just as likely is that they may be absolutely sincere in their belief they were victims of racism, but in fact were not.
They are not experts on racism simply because they're black. In many cases, they may be the worst people to render an opinion on the source of a given hardship or mishap in their lives. "Why did you lose the job?" "The boss is a racist." Just because the person makes the claim, it doesn't mean the claim is true.
"NONETHELESS, that in no way proves or demonstrates that they 9 out of 10 are wrong."
Nonetheless, the 9 saying they experienced racism in no way means they actually did. And thus we can clearly see the problem. You believe these 9 out of 10 proves something more than merely each of the 9 claim they experienced racism. That's not proof they actually did, though it's all you have as evidence. Intelligent people expect there to be some hard evidence, just as intelligent people don't buy into the notion that every woman who claims to be the victim of sexual harassment actually was. Sure. We may note the complaint. But the complaint alone isn't proof of anything. It's one person's word.
That's what reality truly looks like, Dan...reality being just one more concept about which you have no real understanding.
"Do you understand that for those 2 out of 10 or 3 out of 10 who don't report racism, that in no way negates the reality of the vast majority?"
Do you understand I've never so much as hinted at such a thing? My focus has been on the rest who make the claims of being victims or racism. But if you're going to insist on bringing them up, they could be the honest percentage. They could also be of that kind of person who doesn't realize they're being victimized in a racial manner. But as to your "vast majority", why should I believe their claims simply because they make them? Truly rational people don't if their claims are all there is. Only morons would insist that the claims are hard evidence...that the people can't be lying...that the people can't be mistaken regardless of how sincerely they believe their own claims. Truly rational people would hope that they aren't lying or mistaken given the seriousness of the claim, while at the same time hoping just as much the claims are false for the sake of all. You seem to like it so as to validate your white-guilt demonizing of those like me.
"Of millions upon millions of people?"
What "millions"? The "millions" the two thousand polled supposedly represent? You really DO want to see people suffering, don't you? You get some perverse tingle from supposing yourself caring about such people, so the more the merrier. Do you really believe that of the entirety of the black population in this country 9 of 10 spend their time thinking about racism? That would be really f**king sad and a horrible indictment of such a large percentage of that community. I'd prefer to think they spend their thoughts and time on more important things.
"More importantly, do you understand that YOU as a white man, have ZERO support for you telling the vast majority of black Americans that they are wrong?"
That doesn't mean they're not and my race has absolutely nothing to do with it. As to "support" for my position, I've plenty. It's called common sense and when someone makes a complaint regarding their lot in life and "racism" is their primary excuse, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to feel certain that excuse is a crock of shit. Again, there's a section of London where the people have all the same complaints about their situation. They're white people who whine about class rather than race. Same excuse making, but they're just as sincere or just as willing to use whatever excuse is most convenient rather than address the real reasons for their woes. How do you explain that? Please answer directly.
"That you personally have never felt like you experienced black people experiencing racism or discrimination doesn't mean jack shit?"
That question makes no sense as worded. You're either just scrambling for a way to say I don't know jack, or perhaps you're suggesting I don't experience what black people do. Please clarify and try using English.
"Thus demonstrating he's a petty, ignorant coward."
So you desperately need to believe. But among that which it demonstrates, it doesn't demonstrate that at all simply because I choose to limit just how far off the topic you'll push this discussion. Again, if the roles were reversed you'd have deleted most of what I've allowed you to post here.
What's more, this entire discussion demonstrates you don't understand conservatism for merely questioning my positions expressed throughout. Of course, you don't actually address the true point, preferring these distractions which you think are relevant and important.
"You mean you're telling me you're glad to vote for and support a lying pervert who is NOT a model citizen?"
But I didn't vote for Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden! Neither is a model citizen, nor truthful. And both are perverts and enablers of perverts.
"I vote for people who I believe are at least rational and basically decent citizens."
More evidence you're a moron. You voted for Biden and probably Hillary. Neither are rational or decent.
The shame of the modern "progressive"...as inappropriate an appellation for your kind if ever there was one. Well, except for "Christian". That's far more inappropriate.
In my case, I prefer decent people. Some jokers voted for Jimmy Carter with that in mind. He turned out to be an incredible moron. Decency is nice. Effectiveness on behalf of the American people is far more important. We didn't get that in Obama, we wouldn't have gotten it with Hillary or Bernie (or any other Dem from the primaries) and we certainly aren't getting that from the current asshat you moronically believed would be better for us than Trump. Good gosh, you're stupid! But we did get that from Trump. You're just too much a lying lefty to admit it.
Marshal... "Just as likely, and maybe more so, is they may well experienced no racism whatsoever, but simply regard racism to be the reason for most or all of their woes. You believe that because any number of black people insist they experienced racism, then by golly they must have and there's no possibility they're just making excuses."
Good God in heaven! How arrogant are you?
"Just as likely... is the may well have experienced no racism..."
?? Says who? HOW is it "just - or more - likely..."? Based on what data?
I believe people who say things like this because I know many black people who report it. The majority of my black friends and colleagues who are people of good character who are intelligent and able to recognize racism and I have no reason NOT to believe them. I'm not racist, that way.
And I believe them because I've seen it myself, first hand. I've heard the racist comments from white co-workers and acquaintances in my life... in some cases, from my friends and family. I've heard it from plumbers, politicians, mechanics, teachers (less often, but still...), woodworkers/carpenters, truck drivers, restaurant employees, etc, etc. I've heard and seen it first hand.
I've heard these white folk say, "Why don't you go back to Africa, ...?!" "These kids (speaking generally of black students) just don't learn well... they don't have the support of their parents..." "I just don't trust Mexicans..." or, slightly better (...???), "Those Mexicans are good workers, but you can't trust them..." and of course, I've heard the under the breath (or out in the open) references using racial epithets. I've heard many say how we'd be better off if they just went back to where they came from...
I'm not one to deny reality.
Come on. Do you not see it yourself, anywhere in your life?
Regardless if you've seen it (or if you did and didn't recognize it), you have NO hard data on which to make such an arrogant and know-nothing claim like "they just THINK they've been discriminated against."
Lord have mercy.
"And yet, you cannot point to a single thing where I have borne false witness. You can't do it. I've asked you all to do it in the past and you pass every time on actually supporting the empty claim."
It's amazing that your response to this is to double down on lying.
I've pointed out one specific instance in this thread, and one specific instance in the "Kenosha" I think) thread at my blog.
"You white boys insisting you know better than the majority of black and Jewish people (and, presumably, LGBTQ folks) is the epitome of white privilege and arrogance, racism and antisemitism."
This quote of your false claim was literally two comments above your new false claims that I "You you don't even try to make the case. You just say, "oh you bear false witness, all right!" ...but never point to any specific quotes where it happens."
Again, trying to use additional false claims to obfuscate your false claims is an interesting tactic.
The problem with Dan throwing out links to random opinion polls is that opinion polls don't measure what's true. If 80% of people say in an opinion poll that the earth is flat, we aren't going to throw out what's true for what's popular.
Why would we substitute popularity for truth?
I have many times been on the receiving end of black racism against whites. So shoud I therefore declare that all blacks are racists? Black Lives Matter sure wants to paint it that way with their month-long boycott of all "white" companies.
https://notthebee.com/article/how-is-this-not-racism-black-lives-matter-calls-for-boycott-of-all-white-companies
Again, neither whites nor blacks have a monopoly on racism, and throughout my life from junior high through high school through 5 years in the Army, through ever job I've held since, I have seen more black against white racism than I ever say white against black racism.
But, hey, Trabue knows all about racism so I must be wrong.
Marshal... "Do you really believe that of the entirety of the black population in this country 9 of 10 spend their time thinking about racism? That would be really f**king sad and a horrible indictment of such a large percentage of that community..."
This utterly betrays your white privilege.
Yes, of course black people have to think about racism. Because it's part of their lives. Because discrimination still happens.
Because systems are in place that still promote racism.
Because of historic damage done to the black family.
Because of generational wealth lost to black families due to racist policies.
Only a privileged white person can look at the centuries of oppression and harm calls to black people and black communities and black families and black individuals individuals and say, "La dee da! Let them eat cake! Of course they won't spend their time worrying about these little silly nilly problems!"
If you have to worry each day that your black son gets in the car that he might be stopped by the police and killed, that takes a toll on you. If you have to worry about the increased likelihood of your children going to jail because of your race, that takes a toll on you. If you have to think, if I go jogging I might get shot because some cracker thinks a running black man is a thief or a rapist, that takes a toll on you.
Do you seriously think that 9 out of 10 black people just make this stuff up? We're talking about tens of millions of people. Do you think that tens of millions of black people are liars, or are stupid and easily fooled by nonsense stories?
Open your eyes. Release all that white privilege and accompanying arrogance.
Dan said... "You white boys insisting you know better than the majority of black and Jewish people (and, presumably, LGBTQ folks) is the epitome of white privilege and arrogance, racism and antisemitism."
And Craig responded, presumably calling this quote from me a false claim...
"This quote of your false claim was literally two comments above your new false claims..."
WHAT IS FALSE? Merely pointing to a phrase I said and saying it's false is meaningless. Marshal and Glenn are being quite clear that they know better than the majority of black people... what is false about me pointing it out?
Do you all even know how conversation works between rational adults?
And just so you don't balk and say you don't know that Marshal has said this... HIS words...
Dan: "You ARE saying you're smarter, not as gullible, not as easily duped as the vast majority of black people."
MARSHAL's WORDS: "Now that you mention it, I guess I am, though I don't know about the "vast majority" bit "
What is false about my pointing out the racist/arrogant/white privilege idiocy of suggestion?
Craig... "The problem with Dan throwing out links to random opinion polls is that opinion polls don't measure what's true. If 80% of people say in an opinion poll that the earth is flat, we aren't going to throw out what's true for what's popular.
Why would we substitute popularity for truth?"
SO, you think that the vast majority of black people are liars? Idiots? Dupes?
When someone cites a majority of experts about something, it is no longer an appeal to numbers. It is an appeal to expert opinion.
People ARE the experts in what's happening in their own lives.
Do you white boys SERIOUSLY think that racism is not a problem any more? That discrimination and systemic policy problems are NOT a problem for black folk? And that these TENS OF MILLIONS of black people are just too confused/unintelligent to understand what you understand??
What about all this is confusing or difficult for you? Has your white privilege totally blinded you?
What I know, Glenn, is that you are a whiney-ass white boy who is blinded by your white privilege, comparing your minor instances of some incidents of what YOU THINK are racist incidents to centuries of actual oppression... Jesus Christ have mercy on your poor little emotionally fragile white ass.
"Yes, of course black people have to think about racism. Because it's part of their lives. Because discrimination still happens."
Well then, by all means...produce your poll of another 2000 black people stating how much time do they spend every day thinking about racism, remembering that should such a poll even exist, it would only represent how much time each or any of those 2000 spend thinking about racism.
That discrimination still happens is not in dispute. That discrimination happens in all directions, sadly, isn't even considered by white-guilt buffoons like you. It happens for various reasons, some having nothing to do with skin color or ethnicity. It happens within races, particularly for the purposes of this discussion, within the black race as light skinned blacks are often marginalized by the darker skinned among them. How many of those polled would be light-skinned thinking about how those of their own race crap on them and race-hustling BLM-types and white-guilt buffoons like you don't care?
"Because systems are in place that still promote racism."
You're right...there's affirmative action policies, for example, which promote racism; quotas and altering standards; "diversity" policies. These all promote racism and generally at the expense of non-black people. Which systems promote racism against black people?
"Because of historic damage done to the black family."
In the past fifty years, that damage has been done by Democratic policy and the choices made by black people. And here again there's the common whine that a woman with multiple children of multiple fathers, none of whom she ever married, or the poor outcomes in public schools, or the incarceration rate are the result of racism rather than personal choices. So show us in what way damage has been done to the black family by anyone other than themselves, their race-hustling con men "leaders" or the Democrat Party.
"Because of generational wealth lost to black families due to racist policies."
There are people of all races and ethnicity who have come from meager beginnings to develop their own wealth. Citing "racist policies" from 100 years ago is lame ass shit. Those policies do nothing to prevent anyone from rising above their station, as proven by hundreds of thousands of immigrants (even some illegal ones) who have come here with next to nothing and have made good. Do you think none of them experienced some form or racism, discrimination, bigotry or other obstacle?
"Only a privileged white person can look at the centuries of oppression and harm calls to black people and black communities and black families and black individuals individuals and say, "La dee da! Let them eat cake! Of course they won't spend their time worrying about these little silly nilly problems!""
Only a fake Christian "progressive" asshole from Louisville would pretend anyone here has copped that attitude or said anything remotely like that. Thus, this is AN INTENTIONAL LIE. (It occurred to me to embolden every indication of your intentional lying, since you like to pretend you don't like intentionally. It will be easier for you to find them when in the future you insist on proof of it. I'll attempt to remember to do something similar with every comment of yours which illustrates how you know nothing of conservatism. Should be fun.)
"If you have to worry each day that your black son gets in the car that he might be stopped by the police and killed, that takes a toll on you."
The only black parents who have to worry in this way are those who raised their sons to believe they are at risk, that every cop is looking for a reason to kill them and that they are not obliged to obey the law, be it written or in the form of a cop. Good parents of every race raised their kids to be respectful and law abiding, thus eliminating any excuse for the two racist cops in existence (an exaggeration...don't wet your panties).
"If you have to worry about the increased likelihood of your children going to jail because of your race, that takes a toll on you."
There's no such increased likelihood for law abiding kids of any race or ethnicity.
"If you have to think, if I go jogging I might get shot because some cracker thinks a running black man is a thief or a rapist, that takes a toll on you."
What a remarkably unsurprising perversion of the facts of the case. Well done, racist. Here's a tip: if you're "jogging", stay out/off of private properties. If some "cracker" (a racist comment by the fake Christian) thinks you're a thief, stop and talk to him when they seek to question you in the middle of the day. Most important: don't aggressively engage a man with a loaded shotgun. It likely won't go well, even if the armed man isn't an actual racist and is later imprisoned.
"Do you seriously think that 9 out of 10 black people just make this stuff up?"
I'm damned certain I explained what I believe, which is that what they believe isn't necessarily what is true. I've no doubt that some believe they're constantly victimized by racism, and nothing in their life which has gone wrong can be attributed to anything else because what other reason could there possibly be? And we know that the word has been bastardized to provide even more cover for that which is the result of personal choice and the lack of personal responsibility. As I said earlier, it's easy to make a claim. It's quite another to provide evidence to convince the listener it's true. If only those East Enders were black, they're exact same complaints might get more traction!
"We're talking about tens of millions of people."
No. We're talking about a couple of thousand people per poll some insist is representative of millions. It's not. It's representative of those who responded to the poll question. It's used by race-hustlers to suggest racism and white supremacy is a legit concern in this country and the cause of ever ill in the black community. But hey...let's not listen to the black people who don't buy into that crap. They must be black faces of white supremacy!
"Do you think that tens of millions of black people are liars, or are stupid and easily fooled by nonsense stories?"
I don't know. Which poll of yours questioned more than 2000 people? I do know that if we're talking about Democratic voters, there's easily tens of millions of liars, idiots and gullible people buying into all sorts of nonsense stories. It's how people like Clinton, Obama, Biden and every other Dem gets elected. x
"Open your eyes. Release all that white privilege and accompanying arrogance."
My eyes are always open, and your head remains up your ass. In the meantime, suggesting I benefit from white privilege and am arrogant because I speak the truth is another of your INTENTIONAL LIES.
"WHAT IS FALSE? Merely pointing to a phrase I said and saying it's false is meaningless. Marshal and Glenn are being quite clear that they know better than the majority of black people... what is false about me pointing it out?"
That's easy. What's false is suggesting one knows more than every black person (I'm going the distance with this answer for clarity's sake) "is the epitome of white privilege and arrogance, racism and antisemitism." This is especially true when what is said is true. If it is NOT true, prove it. Prove it isn't true that being law-abiding and respectful when confronted with cops will have bearing on whether or not one gets shot and killed by those cops. That's only one point in dispute when race-hustlers like to pretend we're a horribly racist nation threatened by the dark cloud of white supremacy. As such, choosing intentionally to characterize our comments in such a manner is clearly AN INTENTIONAL LIE. It's even AN INTENTIONAL LIE if the speaker is factually wrong about knowing more than others. Worse, it's racist to suggest white people (or asians, Apache, anyone) can't observe and come to conclusions simply because they aren't part of the group being analyzed. That's leftist dishonesty intended to perpetuate the false narrative exploited for gain.
"Do you all even know how conversation works between rational adults?"
Yes, but we have you instead. There's nothing rational in your position or intent to perpetuate bullshit.
"What is false about my pointing out the racist/arrogant/white privilege idiocy of suggestion?"
Again, that it's racist/arrogant/white privilege idiocy to speak truthfully about the topic on the table. You don't have an argument, Bucky. You have a race card which you believe absolves you of arguing your position or proving ours if false. It doesn't. It does demonstrate you're a liar...AN INTENTIONAL LIAR !
"SO, you think that the vast majority of black people are liars? Idiots? Dupes?"
So, you think Craig is more likely to pretend your poll is representative of more than those polled? They do not represent any "vast majority". They represent themselves alone. And among them, there is no way to determine if their "lived experiences" are accurately related. Are you going to insist no black people use racism as an easy out? Really? Are you going to suggest that there's no possibility that of those couple thousand polled that a large percentage of them are of this type? This makes you another useful white guilt idiot the race-hustlers need to further their racist agenda...and you eat it up like a kid with a gallon of ice cream.
"When someone cites a majority of experts about something, it is no longer an appeal to numbers. It is an appeal to expert opinion."
What majority of what experts? Race-hustlers with no real evidence in support of their race-hustling? Thomas Sowell ALWAYS brings evidence and ALWAYS begs for evidence from his opponents (in vein). But, as you project onto us, you find experts who promote your preferred position. Unlike you, we look for experts who provide evidence in support of their arguments. And yes, you're still appealing to numbers in your desperate attempt to confirm your narrative is true. You NEVER consider experts who disagree with you, which is...you know...AN INTENTIONAL LIE because you believe if you ignore them, only YOUR experts have any credibility.
"People ARE the experts in what's happening in their own lives."
Not in this case. Again, perception isn't reality in every case. They respond to these polls about their perceptions regarding racism. And also again, if they can't or won't provide evidence to support their anecdotal tales, we must trust total strangers and we've no obligation to trust any accusation leveled against others without proof. But being a racist, that's what you're doing.
"Do you white boys SERIOUSLY think that racism is not a problem any more?"
No. But you white guilt pussies SERIOUSLY think it's more of a problem than it is. What's more and what's worse, is that you white guilt assholes believe it goes in one direction only. We conservatives oppose racism by anybody. It's something which supports the contention YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND CONSERVATISM.
"What about all this is confusing or difficult for you?"
How you're so stupid to buy into all this crap. It boggles the minds of truly rational, honest people. Your argument starts and ends with "YOU'RE RACIST". Disagreement with a black person means "YOU'RE RACIST". A black person can say you like pooping your panties and if I suggest that person might be mistaken, I'm a racist in your fevered imaginings. Typical racist crap from the promoters of racism...the progressive. (I have to admit, I really wouldn't suggest to that black person you don't like pooping your panties. You "progressives" are into all sorts of weird shit!)
"Has your white privilege totally blinded you?"
It's your irrational white guilt which must believe "white privilege" is a thing. But it doesn't blind you at all. No. You choose to believe stupid crap. It's intentional. AN INTENTIONAL LIE, in fact. You can't help the black race when you perpetuate myths and lies of the race-hustlers.
"What I know, Glenn, is that you are a whiney-ass white boy who is blinded by your white privilege, comparing your minor instances of some incidents of what YOU THINK are racist incidents to centuries of actual oppression..."
OOOHHHHhhhhh! So OUR "lived experiences" are simply what "we think" are racist incidents. OOOOHHHHhhhh! What an incredible hypocritical asshole you are! And by the way, how many black people experienced "centuries" of racism? What percentage of them are even over 95 years old, much less hundreds? It's not a comparison you racist , fake Christian who has no business appealing to Christ except to forgive your own sins. It's testament to racism running in both directions. The severity of an incident, which Glenn hasn't described at all, is irrelevant if ending racism was a real concern of your INTENTIONALLY LYING ass.
You're a joke.
Marshal... "What's false is suggesting one knows more than every black person (I'm going the distance with this answer for clarity's sake) "is the epitome of white privilege and arrogance, racism and antisemitism.""
Damned lie. I never said I know more than every black person. What I'm saying quite clearly is that black people when you speak with them will speak of the racism and discrimination that they experience in their real lives. I'm not saying and have not said that every black person reports this. I'm saying that consistently, in poll after poll after poll after poll after poll, real black people in the real world report this in a variety of ways in large majorities.
That is a plain fact in the real world. Do you acknowledge that reality? Do you acknowledge that I am not lying about this?
Do you really suspect that most black people don't think this? If so, why? Cite some study, some research, some evidence, some data... something more than just your lame little white opinion. If you want to think that in your little head, you can, but it is meaningless without data.
Do you understand this?
Do you understand that you have not pointed to a lie?
Marshal... "They do not represent any "vast majority"."
Prove it. Coward. You can't….
When you realize you can't prove it, admit it. Coward.
Talk like a grown up rational adult, not a scared little white boy.
Where is the research, your evidence that the majority of black people do not report experiencing racism and prejudice and discrimination?
That's the first thing you have to do if you want to talk with rational adults in this conversation. I'm tired of you all citing NOTHING and thinking you're ready to join a rational adult conversation.
If you have no data, you lose. If you have no data, and you can't admit it, you lose and you're a petty little coward.
So, just as some things up, here's where we stand:
1. Dan is citing real world data, surveys, research and evidence which repeatedly shows that the majority of black Americans report facing discrimination, racism, etc. That research and those surveys are all real and numerous and consistently say the same thing.
Do you acknowledge that reality?
2. Marshal doubts the validity of all these reports come all these surveys, all these studies... and thinks they don't represent a majority of black opinion. Is that right?
But, Marshal has NO data to suggest otherwise. Is just his opinion - without ANY data to support it - that the majority of black Americans don't believe just what all these polls say.
Do you acknowledge that reality?
3. Dan thinks that these fellow citizens who report this are generally to be trusted. Why? Because if you have handfuls of people reporting these experiences, you might write it off to mistaken impressions. But if you're talking about millions and laurand a large maturity of black people reporting the same thing, it strains credibility to suggest they're all making it up.
Do you acknowledge that this is a reasonable conclusion to reach?
4. Marshal thinks that all these people are making it up because either they are liars or just heaven heaven fooled or duped into blaming a big lie. Is that correct?
Assuming so, Marshal has NO data support his hunch. It's just an unsupported and unproven claim.
Do you acknowledge that reality?
As to your "INTENTIONAL LIE" thread, do you not recognize you're making no sense? In every one of those, you don't point to a lie and you don't point to an intentional lie and you don't even try to support your claim that it's a lie. Merely stating something with no support is meaningless.
This one, for instance...
"It's your irrational white guilt which must believe "white privilege" is a thing. But it doesn't blind you at all. No. You choose to believe stupid crap. It's intentional. AN INTENTIONAL LIE..."
WHAT is a lie? That white people have privileges that black people don't?
First of all, it's an opinion.
Secondly, it's an informed opinion with much scholarly research done about it... to the point that it's impossible for rational adults to deny it because it is demonstrable, provable.
https://www.apa.org/research/action/speaking-of-psychology/white-privilege
https://www.ucf.edu/pegasus/what-is-white-privilege/
https://www.mindful.org/the-research-on-white-privilege-blindness/
https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2017/07/24/10-examples-that-prove-white-privilege-exists-in-every-aspect-imaginable
And I could go on and on and on. You know that, right?
Thirdly, do you have ANY DATA or scholarly research to prove that white privilege doesn't exist? (Or is that an argument you're making? Because it sounds like you are making that argument, no matter how hard that is to believe...)
In the absence of ANY research demonstrating that white privilege doesn't exist and the abundance of examples and research demonstrating in no uncertain detail that white privilege is a reality, YES, I hold the opinion that white privilege is a real thing.
But that isn't a lie, it's an opinion based upon reason and data.
Do you understand that, now?
Do you understand that I'm not making up the research and evidence and examples of white privilege as a reality? That I'm just being informed and have NO COUNTER evidence or research to suggest otherwise?
Dan... ""Do you white boys SERIOUSLY think that racism is not a problem any more?"
Marshal... "No. But you white guilt pussies SERIOUSLY think it's more of a problem than it is."
Prove it.
Quit making empty, unsupported claims and just for once, prove it.
Or be an adult and admit that you can't.
Here's some of the research and data behind why so many of us recognize the harm being done by racism and systemic racist policies.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6532402/
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMms2025396
https://www.vera.org/downloads/publications/for-the-record-unjust-burden-racial-disparities.pdf
https://www.brookings.edu/research/reversing-the-war-on-drugs-a-five-point-plan/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5121004/
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0963721418763931
Where is your research and data that counters this data and research?
Where have these researchers made an error? Based on what (something more than "I, Marshal, REALLLLLLY think they made an error...")?
Marshal... " Your argument starts and ends with "YOU'RE RACIST". Disagreement with a black person means "YOU'RE RACIST"."
Of course, the reality is that this has never been "my argument." This claim is a false claim. I never begin with "you're racist" and I've never said that disagreeing with a black person means you're racist.
Just from a literal, factual, demonstrable point of view... I've never said either of these.
Do you recognize that reality?
And don't try to justify it. Just be a mature adult and say, "Yes, of course, the reality is that you never said either of these things. I exaggerated and made a stupidly false claim."
Come on. Be rational.
I'm still looking for my "white privilege." What I see in all the affirmative action programs, schools lowering their standands so blacks can get in, etc, is a whole lot of "black privilege."
Oh, and by the way you "white guilt" moron, Trabue -- What an ass to say I was being whiney and my incidents were minor! You have no idea what I have lived through in my life or what the racist incidents were. They were 100% racist blacks causing me suffering of various sorts. Don't go around saying blacks can complain about racism all the time but if a white person suffers from racism it's just whining! You are an irrational FOOL!
Oh, and one more thing, Trabue--- A REAL conservative would never leave conservatism, just like a REAL Christian would never turn away from Christ.
Glenn... "I'm still looking for my "white privilege." What I see in all the affirmative action programs, schools lowering their standands so blacks can get in, etc, is a whole lot of "black privilege.""
That you can't see it is part of the problem and evidence of your white privilege. That you frame it this way demonstrates your white fragility. (Oh, poor Glenn... always those black people getting stuff that should be Glenn's and other white people...)
Glenn... "A REAL conservative would never leave conservatism, just like a REAL Christian would never turn away from Christ."
Seriously, fellas. Prove it.
Don't be ridiculous.
Re: leave conservatism
In many ways, I didn't leave conservatives as much as it left me. I still hold too many conservative ideals, in their purest form.That is, I believe in fiscal responsibility responsibility and recognize this sometimes investments which cost money to save money are fiscally sound decisions.
I believe in taking Jesus quite low literally and seriously. I just don't see what modern conservatives have to do with Jesus and his teachings.
I value respect for elders and respect for all people, But sure never saw that amongst Trump or his supporters or his defenders. Indeed, his was the most vulgar and disrespectful presidency presidency probably in modern history.
I believe in honesty and decency, but again, I'm having a hard time seeing that in modern conservatism.
I believe in looking out and siding with the poor, immigrants and the least of these as I was taught by my conservative Christian family and church, but didn't see much of that starting with the Reagan administration.
I believe in being good stewards of God's creation, but again, especially beginning with the Reagan administration and moving forward, I didn't see much of that.
I believe in personal accountability and holding people in power accountable, but yet again, beginning with Reagan and moving onward, didn't see much of that in modern conservatism.
So, and Minnie very real wise, I didn't leave conservatism. It left me. I was forced to choose between being a Christian and a decent human being and being a part of the GOP and I chose to follow God rather than men.
Glenn... "Oh, and by the way you "white guilt" moron, Trabue -- What an ass to say I was being whiney and my incidents were minor! You have no idea what I have lived through in my life..."
You are correct that I don't know the specific details. But I do have some ideas of what you have lived through.
I know, for instance, that you were a white man and that gave you certain benefits not afforded black men or black women or women of any race, Especially in the sixties and seventies and eighties when you were growing up and a young man. I know you could go for a jog and not be considered a potential criminal. I know you could count reasonably fair treatment from the court system should you get involved.
There's a whole litany of benefits that you had, just from being white. Not the least of these is that you didn't have centuries of history of real oppression based on racism just for your skin color.
Also, I know white men who may be something like you. They found themselves regularly getting in scraps with black people and people of color. They found it easy to blame "black racism" for these attacks. And yet, me or another white guy in the same circumstances did not get in these scraps with black people.
For some of these especially young white men I knew growing up, they had sort of a chip on the shoulder and an eagerness to fight that made them find fights with black people pretty regularly. And yet other white people didn't. It had more to do with these young white men than any racism on the part of black people.
Does that sound like you potentially?
Regardless, the point is not that maybe you you found yourself in fights or it's or called names by people And maybe quite seriously. The point is, nonetheless, any any scrapes you had growing up were eased by the color of your skin. Just because you did not feel that white privilege or recognize it, doesn't mean it wasn't there.
Dan,
You're really quite a moron:
"Damned lie. I never said I know more than every black person."
How nice. I don't know why you pretend I made the charge, since I didn't. You want to pretend you're capable of understanding conservatism (you're clearly not), but you can't understand a simple comment. Were the words I used to big for you? Here it is again:
"What's false is suggesting one knows more than every black person (I'm going the distance with this answer for clarity's sake) "is the epitome of white privilege and arrogance, racism and antisemitism."
I'll try and make it easier for you. You accuse me of racism for daring to suggest I know more than black people. How is that "racism", particularly if it's true? How is it racism even if it's not? It's racism for you to say that about me as if it's been proven with something akin to evidence. Your position is that there's no way those polled black people are wrong about racism in their "lived experiences", because you have no freakin' idea how honest they are, how accurate they are in relating their "lived experiences" or how indoctrinated they've been through generational myths passed down from parent to child and neighbor to neighbor.
I once worked with a woman who on many more than one occasion, would lament financial problems experienced by her and her husband. She would always suggest that they were "screwed again" by the "the system". The fact is they were really, really bad with their money...earning it and then spending it frivolously. When another co-worker suggested they sell their boat to get out of hock, she crapped on the notion. They were willing to do what is truly necessary to develop their financial situation in a positive way and then they whine that it's the fault of some "system" when it goes south. Thus, this is not something unique to black people at all, but that it just manifests in a different way. I've no doubt that if my co-worker could, she'd use race as an excuse for her problems.
And here's the important point you're too much of a racist to accept: Even if racism or "the system" was problematic, it has nothing to do with how one lives one's life with regard to improving one's lot in life. It HAS to be a personal decision to do what's necessary.
"I'm saying that consistently, in poll after poll after poll after poll after poll, real black people in the real world report this in a variety of ways in large majorities."
But you provide nothing for proof that the reports of 9000 people (9 of 10 in poll after poll after poll after poll after poll, most of which are only about 2000 respondents each) are true. It's only what they say and again...and read this part slowly asking a small child to explain it to you...these stories constitute accusations of other people for which they also offer no evidence. With this, you judge those they accuse as guilty rather than presuming their innocence until the respondents can back up their "lived experiences". It's unAmerican as well as unChristian.
"That is a plain fact in the real world. Do you acknowledge that reality? Do you acknowledge that I am not lying about this?"
The plain fact that 8-9 of 10 polled say the same thing without proving it's actually true? No, I don't think you're lying about such polls existing nor the responses therein. But you're lying to insist it's evidence that what they say is true regarding their "lived experiences". Even in my high school days, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, mates often ragged on the cops. It didn't seem to matter that we were engaged in illegal activities (drug possession, mostly). Any consequences were the cops' fault rather than their own. We were profiled by our appearance as well (long-haired, freaky people) because of the prevalence of drug related offenses among those who looked like us (including us). So because of OUR behaviors, those who looked like us suffered far greater scrutiny than, say, Greg Marmalard would be. (Google him)
"Do you really suspect that most black people don't think this?"
No, but that's not the point. Many people believe things which aren't true. THAT'S the point here. I know an incredible moron who actually believed that Joe Biden would improve America if he was elected over the beneficially effective Donald Trump! No, really! This buffoon actually believed that despite Biden proposing failed policies be implemented in some other form, 47 years of incompetence and failure...this buffoon still voted for him and NOW look what's happening! There was never any evidence to believe that Biden was a wise choice, even with a field of other morons vying for the nomination, but this asshole even wrote a blog post promoting the notion! Way too many Americans agreed to one extent or another and now we're in deep shit after a mere 11 months.
"Cite some study, some research, some evidence, some data... something more than just your lame little white opinion. If you want to think that in your little head, you can, but it is meaningless without data."
I've been looking at YOUR "data" and thus far, it's all the same old "correlation/causation" crap. No real evidence to back up a damned thing. Are there disparities in, say, the criminal justice system? It's not proven at all. What is cited is the disparate percentage of black convicted and incarcerated. That suggests a disparate percentage of criminals, not that they were unjustly convicted and sentenced. Even the length of sentencing isn't proven and there are efforts (and examples) of relevant criminal histories being prohibited in trials as if past record doesn't suggest one should be sentenced longer for being a repeat offender.
These are legit questions you won't even ask, preferring instead to pretend you actually give a shit about "the oppressed". If you won't even separate those who are truly oppressed from those who are only claiming to be, you're not helping anyone. You're aiding in perpetuating the cycle which is the true root of the problem.
"Do you understand that you have not pointed to a lie?"
Clearly I have as proven above.
------------------------
"Marshal... "They do not represent any "vast majority"."
Prove it. Coward. You can't…."
I'm supposed to prove the opposite of what YOU haven't proved? How does that work. In any case, I did support it with the basic fact that all you can guarantee is that the responses of those polled are their own and no one else's. To pretend they represent "the vast majority" requires polling everyone to prove it, not just a couple of thousand, especially given how common it is for leftists to abuse polling data. On top of that, it is only asking for their "lived experiences" and provides NOTHING but their word that what they say is true. So you bring proof. YOU'RE the one making the claim. I'm just responding to it.
"Talk like a grown up rational adult, not a scared little white boy."
Counter my responses like an honest Christian and not simply discount them without basis and with name-calling. You can't even point to anything which suggests fear, except the fears of those polled, most of which are likely irrational and unfounded.
"Where is the research, your evidence that the majority of black people do not report experiencing racism and prejudice and discrimination?"
Not at all necessary given I've not made that claim. I've not even hinted at it. Again girl, it's not what they report, it's whether or not what they report is true and/or accurate representations of their "lived experiences".
"That's the first thing you have to do if you want to talk with rational adults in this conversation. I'm tired of you all citing NOTHING and thinking you're ready to join a rational adult conversation."
I'm tired of you presuming you're the rational one after presenting opinion as fact without evidence to back it up, and then demanding evidence to support our objections of that which you clearly aren't understanding.
"If you have no data, you lose."
Then you lose. You haven't presented data. You've presented "studies" which do nothing more than make assertions based on statistics. There's nothing in your list of studies which prove racism is the cause of the stats they analyze and conclude are evidence of racism.
"1. Dan is citing real world data, surveys, research and evidence which repeatedly shows that the majority of black Americans report facing discrimination, racism, etc. That research and those surveys are all real and numerous and consistently say the same thing.
Do you acknowledge that reality?"
Why are you asking me this yet again? It's not a matter of what they say. It's a matter of proving what they say is true and real.
"2. Marshal doubts the validity of all these reports come all these surveys, all these studies... and thinks they don't represent a majority of black opinion. Is that right?"
Are you drunk, Mr. Rational? Proof read before submitting. But yes. That's correct because my objection is true. Your surveys only represent the opinions of those who responded to the surveys and opinion polls. "Reports and studies" you've provided don't provide anything more than other studies of a couple thousand people.
"But, Marshal has NO data to suggest otherwise. Is just his opinion - without ANY data to support it - that the majority of black Americans don't believe just what all these polls say.
Do you acknowledge that reality?"
This is not only not reality, it's AN INTENTIONAL LIE. I have data. I have YOUR polls and surveys which do NOT provide the opinions of the majority of black Americans, but only the opinions of those surveyed...roughly 2000 people at the most on any typical poll.
But that's not even my argument, as absolutely true as that is. Mine is that their opinions don't constitute reality. They constitute nothing more than their perceptions, and I have no way of knowing how honest, intelligent or accurate they are in their assessments of their own "lived experiences". More importantly, you don't, either, yet have the white guilt arrogance to presume it's absolutely honest, intelligent and accurate across the board and indicative of the vast majority of black people...ALL without any evidence to back it up!
"3. Dan thinks that these fellow citizens who report this are generally to be trusted. Why? Because if you have handfuls of people reporting these experiences, you might write it off to mistaken impressions. But if you're talking about millions and laurand a large maturity of black people reporting the same thing, it strains credibility to suggest they're all making it up.
Do you acknowledge that this is a reasonable conclusion to reach?"
It's a conclusion based on the logical fallacy of an appeal to numbers. Because 9 of 10 on a polling of 2000 people say "X", then "X" is true because 90% of those polled believe the same thing. There's no proof...there's no attempt to provide proof that their beliefs are reflections of truth. You presume because of the numbers you can then rest assured the responses are an accurate reflection of reality. Do you know any of those polled personally? No. You don't. You don't know how many are liars, stupid, sincere but mistaken nor how many are actually providing legitimate tales of being actual victims of actual racism. You want to help? You'll need more than just the opinions of people who may ALL be wrong.
"4. Marshal thinks that all these people are making it up because either they are liars or just heaven heaven fooled or duped into blaming a big lie. Is that correct?
Assuming so, Marshal has NO data support his hunch. It's just an unsupported and unproven claim.
Do you acknowledge that reality?"
No, because it's not reality. It's AN INTENTIONAL LIE. My position is the polls do NOT provide us with any assurance the tales of woe are true. I would assume some must be. I have no idea how many of them are and neither do you. None.
--------------------------------------
"As to your "INTENTIONAL LIE" thread, do you not recognize you're making no sense?"
Hey, it's tough dealing with someone like you and your extremely poor comprehension skills, but I do what I can.
"In every one of those, you don't point to a lie and you don't point to an intentional lie and you don't even try to support your claim that it's a lie."
Actually, I've proven your lies every single time. That makes your quoted statement AN INTENTIONAL LIE.
"Merely stating something with no support is meaningless."
And yet you've been doing it constantly and consistently throughout this entire "conversation".
"WHAT is a lie? That white people have privileges that black people don't?
First of all, it's an opinion."
That's absolutely a lie and in this day and age more so than ever. It's just another means of pretending one's difficulties are primarily the result of racism. The opinions of black people about white people are no more or less valid than those of white people about black people. We honest people stick to provable facts, not race-based "studies" which don't prove their premises...like all of yours you've provided in two different comments.
"Secondly, it's an informed opinion with much scholarly research done about it... to the point that it's impossible for rational adults to deny it because it is demonstrable, provable."
Actually, truly rational people don't regard assertions as proof, even if those doing the asserting are "scholars".
"And I could go on and on and on. You know that, right?"
Are you fucking kidding me? The only question is at what point while going on and on and on will you bring any substance?
"Thirdly, do you have ANY DATA or scholarly research to prove that white privilege doesn't exist?"
Do you have ANY DATA or scholarly research to prove that flying invisible unicorns don't exist? None of your links proves a thing. They're all just different people making the same baseless assertion. Unlike you, I actually read your links (and have probably lost three months of my life doing so over the years).
"In the absence of ANY research demonstrating that white privilege doesn't exist and the abundance of examples and research demonstrating in no uncertain detail that white privilege is a reality, YES, I hold the opinion that white privilege is a real thing."
Confirmation bias perpetuating AN INTENTIONAL LIE. Again, unlike you, I actually read your links.
"But that isn't a lie, it's an opinion based upon reason and data.
Do you understand that, now?"
No reason, no data. Just the lie.
"Do you understand that I'm not making up the research and evidence and examples of white privilege as a reality?"
I understand that you post that which confirms your bias and pretend it's proof. If you actually read your own links, you'd find better instead of posting these. Of course, this would mean you understand what you're reading, and there's that clear comprehension problem of yours.
"I'm just being informed and have NO COUNTER evidence or research to suggest otherwise?"
There's certainly value in determining what people think and believe. But that's as far as the value goes. When lefty asshats take those unsupported by fact opinions and seek to affect public policy, we get shit like no cash bail. Rational people don't formulate policy based on anecdotal stories. If you were rational, you'd know this.
"Marshal... " Your argument starts and ends with "YOU'RE RACIST". Disagreement with a black person means "YOU'RE RACIST"."
Of course, the reality is that this has never been "my argument." This claim is a false claim. I never begin with "you're racist" and I've never said that disagreeing with a black person means you're racist."
Are you really going to try and deny this fact by stating you've never worded it in a particular way? That doesn't wash, Skeeter. It's ALL your argument is. Baseless charges of racism because I don't buy into the race-hustling crap you present. You've never provided evidence anything I've ever said is racist. But you accuse me constantly. Thus, ANOTHER INTENTIONAL LIE. They just keep on coming!
One more thing that came up in reading your waste of time links: the notion of "white fragility", which you like to echo like a trained seal. Those of us who oppose this race-hustling crap are not "fragile". We're pissed because assholes are lying and morons are swayed by those lies, including morons who populate the Democratic Party.
So, what we have established:
1. Vast majorities of black people (60-90%+, depending on the questions and the poll) report racism, discrimination and other harmful effects both individually and by way of systemic racism policies.
Fact.
2. There are ZERO polls that report a majority of black people think racism/discrimination is NOT a problem.
Fact. At least as far as what has been established so far. And really... come on.
3. Marshal appears to concede that, yes, of course, most black people say just what these polls suggest.
Are we agreed on that point?
4. Nonetheless, Marshal says he doesn't think that these polls are necessarily valid (and while I've cited a handful or two, really, we're almost certainly talking about hundreds of polls going back decades that report the same thing) because Marshal doesn't think polls are reliable.
Correct?
5. Marshal has no scientific/research experience in the field of polling. His distrust of polls in general is not founded on anything but his biases and ignorant opinion (that's not an insult, just an acknowledgement that you haven't studied polling... right?)
Fact.
6. So, while Marshal keeps raising doubts about the polls, he appears to concede that a majority of black people say just what the polls say... Marshal perhaps just is dubious of the exact numbers? Perhaps he thinks that while 85-90% (again, depending on the question and the poll) are polled as saying that the US still has racism problems and that they still experience racism and discrimination... maybe that number is wrong... maybe it's only 75%... or 55%??
You tell me.
7. Nonetheless, while I've got dozens/hundreds of polls saying the same basic thing, Marshal has ZERO polls that support whatever number he imagines is reality.
Fact.
With me so far?
In response to Dan's comments to Glenn, slipped in while I was putting together my responses to Dan's other crap:
"That you can't see it is part of the problem and evidence of your white privilege."
How convenient. This is what passes for "rational" conversation in LeftyLand.
"That you frame it this way demonstrates your white fragility."
Dan uses this trope again without substantive support for doing so. Making a truth claim, right or wrong, is NOT "fragility". It's the left who are truly the fragile segment of society as they see racism and white supremacy around every corner. It's what we call AN INTENTIONAL LIE. Dan's full of them today!
"Glenn... "A REAL conservative would never leave conservatism, just like a REAL Christian would never turn away from Christ."
Seriously, fellas. Prove it."
It's a matter of obvious logic...self-evident, as Dan would say. Conservatism, like Christianity...to say nothing of Christ Himself...is a matter of truth and adherence to it. Where Glenn goes wrong is in forgetting how for so many, particularly leftists, truth is inconvenient. That fact is at the heart of this discussion.
"In many ways, I didn't leave conservatives as much as it left me."
You can't leave where you've never been. Just because you cling to self-serving fiscal decisions in your own life doesn't indicate conservatism. You don't get a pat on the back for doing the basics.
"I just don't see what modern conservatives have to do with Jesus and his teachings."
Proving once more YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND CONSERVATISM. Unlike lefties, conservatives promote the truths of Christ and abide them to the best of their abilities without corrupting the tough parts for personal gain. Unlike lefties, we don't alter the teachings of Jesus to suit our lives, but base our lives on the teachings of Christ, even the hard ones, like those involving human sexual behaviors.
"I value respect for elders and respect for all people, But sure never saw that amongst Trump or his supporters or his defenders."
And thus you contradict yourself in a single sentence.
"Indeed, his was the most vulgar and disrespectful presidency presidency probably in modern history."
Yeah, that stocking islamic radicals with billions of dollars of state of the art weaponry is pretty damned disrespectful to the people of Afghanistan and the Americans who died and lost limbs on their behalf. The fact is that those who Trump disrespected have always been those who've shown this nation and it's people the most vile disrespect. But you're a hateful liar, so...
"I believe in honesty and decency, but again, I'm having a hard time seeing that in modern conservatism."
What a hypocritical statement for such an indecent, inveterate liar to say! Of course, this is more evidence YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND CONSERVATISM.
"I believe in looking out and siding with the poor, immigrants and the least of these as I was taught by my conservative Christian family and church, but didn't see much of that starting with the Reagan administration."
Yet you vote for those whose policies have proven to have been the most harmful for the poor and immigrants. Then you lie about Reagan, AN INTENTIONAL LIE, given his amnesty for illegal invaders.
"I believe in being good stewards of God's creation, but again, especially beginning with the Reagan administration and moving forward, I didn't see much of that."
AN INTENTIONAL LIE. Reagan wasn't a big environmentalist guy, but to pretend there haven't been progress since his time in office on the environment is just nonsense. And no, I'm not going to address this off topic issue in this thread, nor will I allow you to do so.
"I believe in personal accountability and holding people in power accountable, but yet again, beginning with Reagan and moving onward, didn't see much of that in modern conservatism."
AN INTENTIONAL LIE. This is true from both ends. You see what you want to see. Who's holding Democrat mayors and governors for the damage to businesses through both moronic and unnecessary covid restrictions and evil "police reform", "bail reform" and "prison reform" which has resulted in career criminals committing more crime? You see what you want to see. You don't want to acknowledge the lack of accountability in the black neighborhoods, attributing most, if not all problems they experience to "racism" and "white supremacy". You ignore Trump's record of keeping his campaign promises. You ignore Biden's many America destroying acts, from Afghanistan to inflation promoting fiscal idiocy. You're such a liar.
"I was forced to choose between being a Christian and a decent human being and being a part of the GOP and I chose to follow God rather than men."
You don't follow God. You follow the LGBT agenda, the progressive agenda and wholly ignore God's will in matters of human sexuality and human life. You support those who policies lead to innocent Americans (already born) dying from leftist incompetence. YOU WERE NEVER A CONSERVATIVE AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND CONSERVATISM. Your little list above is just more evidence, if not outright proof.
"You are correct that I don't know the specific details. But I do have some ideas of what you have lived through."
No you don't. Not in the least. And unlike the many examples of boorish behavior that lends total credibility to the notion that no half-intelligent woman...never mind an intelligent woman...would ever have your turd, feo, for a spouse, you have nothing but your eagerness to denigrate Glenn and his past, using anecdotal stories you couldn't possibly prove are true. STFU. Stick to facts. Scratch that. You can't stick to what you never produce. GET facts and try to support your fallacious fantasies.
"1. Vast majorities of black people (60-90%+, depending on the questions and the poll) report racism, discrimination and other harmful effects both individually and by way of systemic racism policies.
Fact."
Not a fact. All you can say is that 6-90% of about 2000 respondents to any given poll claim racism victimhood. But again, what they think they know isn't supported by any evidence. You continue to cite more stuff that says the same thing, but never bring evidence that what is said is reality. I'm not talking about the fact they believe this or that, but that you've not proven what they said is reality.
"2. There are ZERO polls that report a majority of black people think racism/discrimination is NOT a problem.
Fact. At least as far as what has been established so far. And really... come on."
Just as insignificant given no one has contradicted what polls say some black people believe. What's more, no one has suggested that racism isn't a problem. It's the size of scope of it at issue. Indeed, the suggestion that this nation is racist in any way is a pernicious lie, especially given the millions of POC's trying to get in without adhering to our laws. And again, you have no evidence of what "a majority of black people" think. None. You have polls of a couple thousand people and pretend that represents the entirety of the black race in this country, and that even if the majority of the black race in this country agreed, it still wouldn't make it true. Appeal to numbers fallacy.
"3. Marshal appears to concede that, yes, of course, most black people say just what these polls suggest.
Are we agreed on that point?"
If you wish to continue hammering on that dead horse which has no significance or relevance to anything important for the sake of the black race, no. Because to be even more precise, I only agree that the polls show the results you say, not that the polls represent "most" black people.
"4. Nonetheless, Marshal says he doesn't think that these polls are necessarily valid (and while I've cited a handful or two, really, we're almost certainly talking about hundreds of polls going back decades that report the same thing) because Marshal doesn't think polls are reliable.
Correct?"
You really are an incredible moron. It doesn't matter what your polls say. What matters is if what the respondents say is actually true with regard their "lived experience". Don't ask again. Just re-read already posted responses to your desperate attempts to make your bullshit real.
"5. Marshal has no scientific/research experience in the field of polling. His distrust of polls in general is not founded on anything but his biases and ignorant opinion (that's not an insult, just an acknowledgement that you haven't studied polling... right?)
Fact."
I most certainly do NOT have any faith in polling, most of which, particularly on political/social issues, are dishonestly run and reported. The only time I refer to polls is to piss off assholes like you with your own weapons.
Furthermore, there's no ignorance in my positions that you've been able to expose. You think because I don't fall in line with those YOU think are unassailable experts indicates a problem with me. But you can't even prove THAT. You just assert like a pantywaist progressive can only do when no facts exist to back up your crap.
"6. So, while Marshal keeps raising doubts about the polls, he appears to concede that a majority of black people say just what the polls say... Marshal perhaps just is dubious of the exact numbers? Perhaps he thinks that while 85-90% (again, depending on the question and the poll) are polled as saying that the US still has racism problems and that they still experience racism and discrimination... maybe that number is wrong... maybe it's only 75%... or 55%??
You tell me."
I did tell you, probably a dozen times now at least. The polls say what the polls say. Not an issue and never was at any point in this "conversation". Whether the responses reflect reality, particularly in the way you race-hustlers demand everyone agree, is the issue. You haven't proven that at all, nor do any of your links which as usual wasted my time to find out what I already knew.
"7. Nonetheless, while I've got dozens/hundreds of polls saying the same basic thing, Marshal has ZERO polls that support whatever number he imagines is reality.
Fact.
With me so far?"
I'll never be with you. To be with you is to forsake God in Heaven. But you don't have "hundreds" of polls, and I doubt you have more than a couple dozen at most. I don't need to polls since my point has nothing to do with finding a poll with the opposite response to the same question. My point is about the responses and on what basis can we trust all responses are accurate, honest and/or something which can be proven.
I get the impression that while I've been responding to this latest steaming pile, you're pinching off another. I may cut you off now, or after I respond. But if you wish to go even further, I will be breaking my personal rule and refuse to post any more of this shit and only allow comments which relate to the post itself. We've traveled way too far down this dead end road repeatedly explaining your stupidity. You've lost. Your argument is crap. Move on.
I see nothing new in the queue, so I'll be stepping away. Any further off topic comments will not see publication. But keep in mind you get far more rope than you allow at your blog. And that's with all your lying and misunderstanding of conservatism.
Marshal... "I doubt you have more than a couple dozen at most."
Do you seriously doubt it?
Is it the case that you're not familiar that these sorts of polls have been conducted over decades? Is it the case that you don't think there have been multiple such polls each year?
Seriously?
"The polls say what they say..."
Indeed, they do. Do you think, in your head, that a majority (51%+) of black Americans report racism and discrimination?
What is the percentage that you find believable?
Based upon what?
Marshal... "Any further off topic comments will not see publication."
You've been caught in your ignorance and you're dodging, just like you're ignorantly, stupidly false claims about my conservatism growing up.
We see what you're doing, Marshal.
Just because you hide behind deleting/not posting rational, adult responses to your false claims and idiocies and arrogance doesn't mean that anyone who reads this can't see.
In the news today...
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/us/racist-bullying-school-incidents/index.html
I've responded in full, in detail and multiple times in a straightforward manner to your off topic comments, particularly your obsession with polls of black people accusing others of perpetrating racial victimization without the slightest evidence. I've acknowledged black people making such assertions and you expect me to be as gullible as you are in accepting their claims without question, despite providing nothing but their word as if there's no possibility any of the respondents are mistaken in their perceptions, are dishonest in their responses, are indoctrinated to regard every negative "lived experience" as evidence of racism, but that each respondent to every such poll is beyond questioning simply because they're black people responding to questions about racism. You know nothing about any of the people responding. You know nothing about anything they have in mind when responding to these polls, such as if their experiences were non-racial responses to them being complete assholes.
In short, with the many consistent responses to your same questions asked over and over as if not answered. In turn you do NOTHING to address ANY of my concerns (except to post multiple links, each of which do no more than make the same assertions...that is, not evidence in support of anything). Then you have the unmitigated audacity to accuse me of cowardice and dodging, while I don't believe you've addressed the point of the post the whole time. (I'll have to check)
My conclusions regarding your claims of past conservatism and understanding of it are based on your ignorant comments regarding it. Thus, dispelling my belief of what constitutes total ignorance and stupidity depends on you saying something intelligent.
Just because you hide behind deleting/not posting rational, adult responses to your false claims and idiocies and arrogance doesn't mean that anyone who reads this can't see.
And now you want to offer a link to perpetuate the myth of white racism against blacks. I can counter with news reports of black flash mobs looting white owned stores, mugging or assaulting non-blacks as a game, rioting on the false pretense another thug was "murdered" by police while resisting arrest or falsely convicted in courts. And all it will prove is that racism, hatred and assholes exist in most every demographic group.
This post highlights more evidence the leftist press is a true enemy of the people. From the jump you've dodged and avoided the topic. I've allowed you to indulge your distractions quite long enough. Don't lie about your treatment here as if you treat me better at your blog. That's just ANOTHER INTENTIONAL LIE.
Marshal... "perpetuate the myth of white racism against blacks..."
The MYTH of white racism??!!
The MYTH??
You can't be serious.
Marshal... "you expect me to be as gullible as you are in accepting their claims without question, despite providing nothing but their word as if there's no possibility any of the respondents are mistaken..."
If I'm part of a birdwatching group group with a 1000 members and 900 of them tell me that going to Central Park by the pond is a good place to spot bald eagles, because they've seen the eagles there themselves... I tend to believe them. Why wouldn't I? Especially if I know that eagles are in the area and they exist in reality and this sounds like a reasonable place to spot them, why wouldn't I believe them? What reason would I have to NOT believe them?
It's not like they're reporting something incredible or hard to believe.
Do you agree that in that situation, it's not unreasonable to believe just what they've told me, even though I can't prove it and even though I'm relying upon their word?
I know that racism and discrimination and other harms towards black people, both deliberate and indirect as well as systemic, exist. It is an objective observable reality. I've seen and heard it first hand myself.
Have you not?
The question then is why would you doubt what they're reporting you, especially when we're talking about millions upon billions of black people reporting similar similar instances?? Do you have any evidence to suggest that whatther saying is false?
It sounds like you're saying that you're not inclined to believe black people when they report things like this... but why? Is it overt racism on your part, that you think black people are not reliable or trustworthy? If not that, then what??
Do you at least see why this is a reasonable question to ask you? Why are you SO distrustful of millions and millions of black people when they're reporting you their experiences?
Are you similarly distrustful when millions upon millions of women report being sexually harassed on a regular basis? Why?
Are you so entangled in your white male identity that you are distrustful of everyone who's not a white male?
Trabue:
This utterly betrays your white privilege.
No such thing as "white privilege." That is an idea made up by racist LEFTISTS.
Yes, of course black people have to think about racism. Because it's part of their lives. Because discrimination still happens.
It's part of their lives because they are allowing themselves to be brainwashed by LEFTISTs like you. And because are just as many racist blacks as there are whites.
Because systems are in place that still promote racism.
Bald faced lie. Show some actual proof, not just wacky beliefs.
Because of historic damage done to the black family.
"Historic damage ..." started when blacks sold their own people into slavery. After the end of slavery in the USA, black familes became intact until Demokrat policies led to fatherless homes.
Because of generational wealth lost to black families due to racist policies.
Facts, please.
Only a privileged white person can look at the centuries of oppression and harm calls to black people and black communities and black families and black individuals individuals and say, "La dee da! Let them eat cake! Of course they won't spend their time worrying about these little silly nilly problems!"
There hasn't been real oppression of blacks for many decades. Most of the harm to black people now comes from black people making poor choices to be fatherless while the men bed many women, producing many fatherless children; the gangs who destroy other blacks as well as innocent blacks caught in crossfires. The drugs rampant in many black communities, rampant crime in such communities as well as a higher percentage per capita of black criminals that white.
If you have to worry each day that your black son gets in the car that he might be stopped by the police and killed, that takes a toll on you. If you have to worry about the increased likelihood of your children going to jail because of your race, that takes a toll on you. If you have to think, if I go jogging I might get shot because some cracker thinks a running black man is a thief or a rapist, that takes a toll on you.
No one has to believe this lie. The only reason anyone has such fears is because they are being taught such nonsense. And if you are pulled over, don't make poor choices which lead to trouble. NO ONE goes to jail because of their race. And as Marshal pointed out, your language is racist but you think that's okay while hypocritally complaining about racism. Marshal adequetly addressed the jogging case.
Glenn... "I'm still looking for my "white privilege." What I see in all the affirmative action programs, schools lowering their standands so blacks can get in, etc, is a whole lot of "black privilege.""
That you can't see it is part of the problem and evidence of your white privilege. That you frame it this way demonstrates your white fragility. (Oh, poor Glenn... always those black people getting stuff that should be Glenn's and other white people...)
Oh, so since I can't see (and have never seen) a lie called "white privilege" that means I have "white privilege" ?!? Talk about an illogical and irrational statement!!! "White fragility" is another made up lie by LEFTISTs. It's a nonsensical phrase. And you lying jackass, I never said black people got stuff that should go to white people. My complaint is that blacks get privilges through "affirmative action" and similar programs because merit is thrown out the window. I have seen many, many, many cases where more hightly qualified/skilled individuals lost promotions/positions because a lower qualified/skilled black person had to be accepted instead (or a woman over a man in the same type of affirmative action). It's not about "other white people" getting someting instead of a black person, it's about merit -- who is the best qualified regardless of skin color or sex.
Glenn... "A REAL conservative would never leave conservatism, just like a REAL Christian would never turn away from Christ."
Seriously, fellas. Prove it.
Don't be ridiculous.
Easy to prove. Facts and objective reality is what conservatism is all about. If you are a conservative you don't deny facts and objective reality to become a non-conservative. If you do, then you never accepted facts and objectiver reality in the first place.
Dan,
Why are you continuing on your path of nonsense? Stick to the topic of this post. It's one you like to pretend is a lie. I'm surprised you're not posting equally absurd arguments to support your contention.
I've explained my position in great detail in response to your many repetitions of the same question. Do you think I'll eventually give you a different answer when I haven't thus far? And until you present a poll of millions and millions of black people, you have no freakin' idea of just how many would report anything. It's over. Your argument is inane and purposely misses the point of my objections. Enough. Stick to the topic or piss off.
Glenn,
It's quite clear, and beyond debate at this point, that Dan isn't concerned with facts. He thinks it's a fact that polls show X means that X is true and there's something wrong with anyone who presents legitimate questions about the poll and how it's used to promote a narrative. So he's done and done good. I will not respond to any off topic comments from him and I don't think anyone else should, either. He's very particular...anal retentive, actually...about how one engages at his blog. He doesn't give a rat's ass about respecting the hosts of other blogs and their requests or rules. You'll note...and he must as well...that despite insisting I'll likely deny off topic remarks by him, I've posted absolutely everything he's attempted to post thus far. He's nowhere near as gracious at his blog, and he's the "embrace grace" dude...whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.
Glenn... "Oh, and by the way you "white guilt" moron, Trabue -- What an ass to say I was being whiney and my incidents were minor! You have no idea what I have lived through in my life..."
You are correct that I don't know the specific details. But I do have some ideas of what you have lived through.
No way in hell could have the slightest idea of what I have lived through. Your comments on this post and others show that you believe only black people can be oppressed, that only black people suffer from racism, that only black people can live in poor conditions, that only black people get federally subsidized food and houseing, that only black people can have poor education, that only black people can be homeless, etc, etc. In your mind all white people are privileged just because they are white. I never had any privileges growing up and joined the Army to get out of the circumstances in which I was living, and then I busted my butt to get everything I acquired, whether was education or money, etc. I could have made poor choices like so many others who lived is similar circumstances regardless of skin color. But your don't want to blame black people for their poor decisions which put them in the positions you claim are cause by white people. Just one more proof that you never Christian nor conservative but just another abjectly ignorant racist LEFTIST.
I know, for instance, that you were a white man and that gave you certain benefits not afforded black men or black women or women of any race,
NAME ONE benefit I got that was not available to a black man. Name any benefit any white man has that isnt' afforded to black men or women or women of any race.
Especially in the sixties and seventies and eighties when you were growing up and a young man. I know you could go for a jog and not be considered a potential criminal. I know you could count reasonably fair treatment from the court system should you get involved.
Proving once again you don't know jack shit. I couldn't even leave the front door of the projects I lived in without getting beat up by several people waiting to attack me and my brother -- the only whites in the neighborhood! Your whole ideology is as invented as that ridiculously fantasy revised history book titled "1619."
There's a whole litany of benefits that you had, just from being white. Not the least of these is that you didn't have centuries of history of real oppression based on racism just for your skin color.
More rank bullshit. I am of Irish descent -- have you ever studied how the Irish were treated by the English and Americans? Many came over as slaves and/or indentured servants who were treated harshly as slaves. Oh, but they were white so they couldn't possibly have been treated badly.
Also, I know white men who may be something like you. They found themselves regularly getting in scraps with black people and people of color. They found it easy to blame "black racism" for these attacks. And yet, me or another white guy in the same circumstances did not get in these scraps with black people.
More lies. There was one reason and one reason only as to why I was beat up -- I was white in the wrong neighborhood.
For some of these especially young white men I knew growing up, they had sort of a chip on the shoulder and an eagerness to fight that made them find fights with black people pretty regularly. And yet other white people didn't. It had more to do with these young white men than any racism on the part of black people.
Does that sound like you potentially?
Not at all, asshole, which proves you just want to make excuses for black on white racism -- in your infantile and ignroant mind you can't accept that blacks are just as racist as whites.
Regardless, the point is not that maybe you you found yourself in fights or it's or called names by people And maybe quite seriously. The point is, nonetheless, any any scrapes you had growing up were eased by the color of your skin. Just because you did not feel that white privilege or recognize it, doesn't mean it wasn't there.
Pure fiction. I never called names and was afraid to fight back because the one time I did it came out worse -- never a one-on-one with those people. You and your white guilt makes me want to puke.
Sorry, Marshall,
I have been around to respond and I've just been going down the line in my inbox responding to his abject intentional ignorance and stupidity. Just now catching up.
Not a problem, Glenn. I get it. I often start responding until I read all of Dan's tripe.
I have forgotten your past mentions of your upbringing. It is not as uncommon as white-guilt morons from Kentucky prefer to believe. It never even occurs to them, so busy are they promoting the narrative they believe themselves morally superior for defending...never mind how true or false it is. He never considers a real degree of vengeance in the behaviors of those blacks who in some way assault whites, believing they're "striking back", as if that's their true motive. Yet even if it is, it is as vile as any other given vengeance is God's alone.
Both Marshal and Glenn... " It is not as uncommon as white-guilt morons from Kentucky prefer to believe."
WHAT "white guilt..."??? Where have I EVER said that I was guilty because I am white, that I FEEL guilty because I'm white?
These are empty, stupidly false claims, boys.
For all your BLM level crap, it's still not surprising you don't understand why the term is so appropriately applied to your forehead. Now cut the crap and stick to the topic of the post.
Dodge. Avoid. Obfuscate.
That's all fine for a third grader. Grow up.
"Dodge. Avoid. Obfuscate."
AN INTENTIONALLIE.
I've been totally transparent and consistently forthright in my responses to the many repetitions to your already answered questions, all of which in this post have been wholly off topic. In other words, you're dodging, avoiding and obfuscating...your typical third grade level pattern of behavior in most every (being gracious here) conversation. Then you project that and other negative traits onto those with whom you refuse to give an honorable response to their legitimate and thoughtful objections. It's how you roll.
So keep exposing your hypocrisy. It's a rare honest expression from you.
Here's one for Trabue, written by a black man who doesn't buy into Trabue's lies about blacks.
https://townhall.com/columnists/willalexander/2021/12/06/black-crime-slavery-and-jim-crow-aint-got-nothin-to-do-wit-dis-n2600040
But Glenn...Dan doesn't care about black voices who are in conflict with the BLM/all-black-people-are-angels-narrative! He won't care about this guy's "lived experiences"! What's wrong with you??
Great article, by the way Glenn. No doubt Dan will hate it and dismiss it while pretending those who defend the punks whose lifestyles led to their own deaths never embellish their "lived experiences" to whitewash such realities.
So just what does Trabue do about "black supremacists?
https://www.danielgreenfield.org/2021/12/kamala-stopped-fbi-from-monitoring.html
Aside from asserting they don't pose as much a threat as white people, he doesn't care.
Glenn... " What does Trabue do about black supremacists?"
Good Lord. That's easy. I'm opposed to all those who embrace violence especially those who do so so for reasons of racism.. It's just that violent black supremacists Are not the problem in our nation or anywhere As compared to white supremacists who law enforcement agencies identify as one of the larger threats of violence in our nation.
So, the question isn't what Trabue does with anyone who anyone who promotes violence, because the answer is easy and known. I am opposed to tha. Of course.
The question is do you all stand ready to denounce white supremacists and their supporters? Do you recognize that the FBI and law enforcement agencies identify them as a serious problem or threat to safety in the United States? Will you join with all good people and clearly denouncing White supremacy, especially given the historically tragic damage done by white supremacists in our real world history?
The "threat of white supremacy in America" is a myth. But what does that have to do with the enemy of the people...the leftist media, which is the topic of this post? Answer: nothing.
Violence perpetrated by black people is wildly disproportionate to their numbers in the country. Doesn't matter to the victims if a thug aligns with a "supremacist" or "nationalist" group.
Lefty lies just keep coming.
I'll wager that there are more black supremacists than there are white supremacists in the USA. The black ones are in the daily news, while you rarely hear of a bonafide white one.
I won't take that wager simply because it's not something one can easily categorize. Are the thugs racist or just thugs. And again, does the victim care one way or the other?
Glenn... "I'll wager that there are more black supremacists than there are white supremacists in the USA."
Yeah. That's what the white supremacists are saying.
Not the experts.
Not the FBI.
Not law enforcement agencies.
Not Homeland Security.
All the experts identify white supremacists as a huge threat. They will tell you that "black supremacists" are a tiny group that poses no large scale threat.
All the experts agree.
But Glenn and the white supremacists and racists and KKK live in fear of "dangerous black men."
Look at the company you keep, Marshal.
Look at how you side with them over the experts.
Open your eyes. Repent.
And yes, Marshal, it matters to victims when white supremacists are a serious threat, as they are, according to the experts. Because they are terrorizing whole segments of society. They are terrorists who pose a real threat and that's why it matters.
But you two can side with the racists if you want.
Just don't be ignorant that this is precisely what you're doing.
Damn.
Marshal... "The "threat of white supremacy in America" is a myth. But what does that have to do with the enemy of the people...the leftist media"
Wow. You IGNORE the FBI and most (all?) the professional law enforcement agencies and experts in the field and instead, choose to side with the racists, the KKK, the white supremacists.
And instead of standing with good people against white supremacists, you AID the actual literal enemy of the people and instead, attack actual heroes - the media.
You boys are sick. I thought you were just confused and ignorant... but with this post, you're demonstrating a deep soul-sickness.
Siding with racists and demonizing heroes.
Your world is upside down.
Marshal... "I won't take that wager simply because it's not something one can easily categorize."
WHY IN THE NAME of all that is Holy would not NOT take the bet because it's contrary to expert opinion?
Do you think you know better than the FBI? Homeland Security? The various law enforcement agencies and experts?
You'd rather listen to racists and ignorant racist-sympathizers like Glenn?
What do you base opinions on if NOT expert opinion? Are you relying solely on the claims of racists? Your gut feelings?
You can't be this ignorant or fearful.
I'm neither, but clearly you are as you continue to dodge the topic of the post, which all three of your last comments do.
Black couple suing appraiser for appraising their house for $500,000 more when he thought they were a white couple who owned the house...
https://www.ebony.com/news/a-black-couple-enlist-their-white-friend-to-pose-as-the-owner-of-their-home-to-receive-a-higher-appraisal-value/
Unfortunately, they didn't have marshals to tell them that racism doesn't exist anymore.
How do you know it's not another of so many hate-crime hoaxes? Here's how: it suggests racism and therefore all must believe. Don't post anything else which isn't related to the topic of the post. I will indeed be blocking unrelated crap. Who do you think you are...feo?
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