1. Are you trying to denigrate or take a swipe at Juneteenth?
2. If so, why?
3. Juneteenth is when we celebrate the end of slavery in the US. If the US had never become independent and remained a colony of the UK, slavery almost certainly would have ended, as it did, in fact, end in Britain and Canada and other colonies associated with the UK.
4. Further, slavery ended in Britain in 1803, ~60 years before ending in the US. They abolished slavery in most of their colonies in 1833, ~30 years before the US.
A case could be made that slavery might have ended sooner if the US were still connected to Britain. Of course, we don't know.
But if the point of your post was to take some sort of mean-spirited and ill-advised attack upon Juneteenth, then it fails because it was mean-spirited and stupid and it fails because the claim is probably not factual.
"1. Are you trying to denigrate or take a swipe at Juneteenth?"
More like taking a swipe at those who think Juneteenth is worth a national holiday, which it isn't.
"3. Juneteenth is when we celebrate the end of slavery in the US."
Why? That's not the day it ended. It isn't even when it ended in the Confederate states. It's just when the news finally reached Texas of the Emancipation Proclamation, which only freed slaves of the Confederate states. The United States still had slave-holding states on the northern side of the border between the Union and the Confederacy until December of 1865 when the 13th Amendment garnered enough states for passage. Among those who didn't get on board were Joe Biden's Delaware, which finally ratified the 13th in 1901, and your own Kentucky, who finally saw fit in March of freaking 1976!
"4. Further, slavery ended in Britain in 1803, ~60 years before ending in the US. They abolished slavery in most of their colonies in 1833, ~30 years before the US."
This is wrong. They had only abolished the Slave Trade in 1807, three weeks after Jefferson did it here, and it wasn't until 1833 that they abolished slavery, 32 years prior to our country. Both was largely the result of the work of Evangelical Christian William Wilberforce. In the meantime, your Democratic party did all they could to continue beating down the black man before and long after the Civil War. Were it not for Republicans...
Jefferson, by the way, had already begun work in this country toward abolishing slavery, as early as 1784...as were others. Slavery almost prevented the uniting of the colonies given there were always those among the colonists who opposed it, and they had to compromise with the slavers in order to form a more perfect union.
A case could be made that remaining part of England may have prolonged slavery as there would have been that many more colonies utilizing slaves than there were after the American Revolution, and England shelled out some serious coin to compensate colonial slave owners who had to give them up. How much more would it have cost them were America still among them and how much more likely would the economics have delayed England's abolition as a result?
In any case, the point of my post stands as firmly as it did before you tried to use it to attack me personally. This is true even if your speculation regarding our country remaining part of Britain played out that way, just in a different way.
Thus, again, we see the mean-spirited and stupid one is you. We didn't need another national holiday for people to exploit for barbecues and inebriated merriment, and to get paid by their employers despite the absence of productivity to which wages are tied. The worst part is the timing in that regard given the state of the economy after your politicians locked us down for so long, and so many lost their livelihoods as a result. I like free money and time off as much as the next guy. But adults understand the costs and act accordingly.
Finally, July 4th was intended for all men, as was our Declaration of Independence, and thus it is the only day we need to mark all men's independence...not one day for this group and another for that. I have no respect for panderers, and that's what you and your party are, as you exploit for political power.
Marshal... "More like taking a swipe at those who think Juneteenth is worth a national holiday, which it isn't."
Also Marshal... " We didn't need another national holiday for people to exploit... I like free money and time off as much as the next guy."
1. Okay, if you're just worried about having an extra day off (to exploit and be lazy, in your sick opinion) so how about abandoning the Fourth of July which literally marked (symbolically) the independence of WHITE MEN only, when it started, in favor of Juneteenth, when we literally celebrate the ACTUAL liberty of all people? Symbolically speaking, it's a much better thing to celebrate ACTUAL liberty instead of liberty for a few.
You wouldn't favor that, would you? I mean, you still want this nation run by the minority of white men who agree with you, right...? Isn't that exactly what all these voting limitations are all about (and you can deny it, but we all see it for what it is). Right?
2. A large majority of black folk (~70%) support the Juneteenth holiday, in spite of the fact that Marshal views it as useless and just an opportunity to exploit and be lazy.
But if Marshal disagrees with those people who Marshal must think are stupid and lazy, then we should bow to Marshal's whims.
Do you ever get outside your own head and try to understand the world around you?
I mean, I know that kind of thing is frowned upon in today's conservatism, but once upon a time, conservatives at least stood for some ideals and recognizing reality and trying to understand others was not as frowned upon as it is today.
Be a brave and smart conservative. Not one that racists and xenophobes are comfortable with.
Marshal... "Why? That's not the day it ended."
We all know this. But it's a good symbol for actual liberty and freedom and human rights. We could also choose the day women got the right to vote August 18, 1920. Or we could commemorate the passage of the voting rights act on August 6, 1965 (our lifetime!) when ALL people could finally freely vote.
After all, we actually declared Independence from England and our liberty (for landed white men) on July 2, not July 4th, so it's not like the exact date is the point.
Marshal... "July 4th was intended for all men, as was our Declaration of Independence, and thus it is the only day we need to mark all men's independence...not one day for this group and another for that. I have no respect for panderers..."
A. JUNETEENTH is a day to celebrate everyone's liberty because, in the words of Dr King, NONE of us are free until all of us are free. We did not have independence or true liberty in our nation until at least after Juneteenth (and I'd argue, really, closer to after the Voting Rights Act of 1965 - since until we all can vote, then we are not really free). I GET that you're fine with celebrating when white men got their liberty and how it's easy for you to turn a blind eye to the very real oppression of black people and women (and other marginalized people) because you're not in those groups, but I ask for you to think larger than just your own petty self-interests.
B. What you call "pandering," we call actually listening to black people. It's interesting (and pathetic) that you think listening to all people is pandering.
Obviously your underlying premise is correct. Without independence from Britain, there would have been no Juneteenth. Which isn't to say that there wouldn't have been an end to slavery here, just that it would have looked different.
While I'm not sure that Junteenth should be a national holiday, I also think that it should be celebrated/acknowledged. Before I go any further, I understand the history you've pointed out and that Juneteenth isn't really the end of slavery in the US. Having said that I'm sympathetic to those who argue that the ending of slavery was a significant step toward the country our founding documents envision, and that step is significant enough to be celebrated for what it was. Since there are any number of dates that could be chosen for that celebration, and which one is chosen would be pretty arbitrary, I fail to see why Juneteenth is (for an arbitrary date) problematic.
I think that the bigger question is what the trajectory of this part of the world would have been had we not gained our independence. It seems reasonable to posit that Britain would have been severely punitive had they won, and that development would have been significantly slowed as well. Further, given the support of the CSA from England (due to their hunger for cotton), it seems likely that England would have allowed the plantation system in the south to flourish as long as they reaped the benefit of cheap cotton.
I know that it's all speculation, but had the US not won independence, it's likely that the world as we know it would have been significantly different.
"1. Okay, if you're just worried about having an extra day off..."
No. I'm not "just worried" about having an extra day off. I'm saying making it a federal holiday is not justified.
"...so how about abandoning the Fourth of July which literally marked (symbolically) the independence of WHITE MEN only, when it started, in favor of Juneteenth, when we literally celebrate the ACTUAL liberty of all people?"
This is where the ignorance/rejection of actual history comes into play. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, ALL men are created equal. That encompassed black men in the minds of the authors of the Declaration. Just because those who became the Democratic Party refused to grant that independence to blacks, doesn't mean the principles of liberty weren't intended for them as well. Again, without the slave states, there's be no United States and Juneteenth would never have come to pass after hundreds of thousands of Republicans died to free the slaves.
What's more, Juneteenth does not recognize the "actual liberty of all people". That doesn't come until December of 1865 with the ratification of the 13th Amendment. So, if we're to make a national holiday of either, it should be the Dec date, not the June date, when true end of slavery tool place in our nation. Indeed, I don't understand the thinking of the black community in ignoring Dec 6 when ALL slavery was abolished in favor of June 19 when only some slaves were freed. It's hard, thus, to imagine the current climate of race-hustling and pandering stemming from the constant lies about the nation being racist, how and why George Floyd died and concern of the BLM movement for black people propelled this date as more significant than the more comprehensive nature of Dec 6, 1865. But then, I'm not a self-loathing, white-guilt "progressive" "Christian", so facts, truth and history are important to me.
"I mean, you still want this nation run by the minority of white men who agree with you, right...?"
Nice racist comment, there Danny-girl. But the reality is, regardless of how many agree with me, regardless of what race or sex they are, regardless of whether such are in the majority or the minority, I want them in the majority of all levels of American government because those who agree with you are just as stupid, racist and fake as you. Your kind is why there's so much racial division in this country in the first place.
"Isn't that exactly what all these voting limitations are all about (and you can deny it, but we all see it for what it is). Right?"
Wrong. Again. But pretending that's what's happening with election law changes in places like Georgia is just you demonstrating my claim about you being stupid, racist and fake and responsible for racial division in this country is valid. Thanks for the evidence.
We could return to a single day for casting votes in person with paper ballots...after proving with a state ID one is who one says one is, and it wouldn't be an example of voting limitations. It would be election integrity. And there's no reason we can't do that except for leftist desire to leave open as many opportunities for fraud as possible, given their platform doesn't appeal to enough people to win elections on their platform alone (except in cities where moronic Dem voters are in the majority---but then, they either have no idea what's in the platform or are perverse and evil enough to promote it imagining they won't eventually become a victim of it as the black community has for all these years.)
"2. A large majority of black folk (~70%) support the Juneteenth holiday..."
Why they'd support doing so when it isn't a day when all slaves were freed is beyond my comprehension, but I believe my speculations are accurate. Besides, June was designated Pride in Perversion Month and who'd want to compete with that?
------------------------------------ "But if Marshal disagrees with those people who Marshal must think are stupid and lazy"
Another grace-embracing false accusation by the fake Christian. I never said all who support this move are stupid or lazy. I've no doubt this is a reference to...
"We didn't need another national holiday for people to exploit for barbecues and inebriated merriment, and to get paid by their employers despite the absence of productivity to which wages are tied."
But despite your white people hatred driving your unjustified assumption, this comment refers to what is so freaking common even a moron like yourself should have seen it naturally without me having to explain it. What percentage of Americans do you think spend much time or effort in devoting their attention to the reason we have any paid days off for national holidays? What percentage spends each day in reflection regarding the meaning of the day in question? What percentage simply regards it as free money and partying? In considering these questions, pretend you're an honest man, rather than a pandering, white-guilted goof.
"Do you ever get outside your own head and try to understand the world around you?"
If you're an example of what they looks like, I hope to never do so. But given I don't think as you do, I'm quite certain I have a better handle on the world around me than you ever will. It's too bad. You're running out of time.
"Be a brave and smart conservative. Not one that racists and xenophobes are comfortable with."
This from the guy with absolutely no understanding of conservatism while supporting the party of racism, disregard for those of other countries and identity politics.
"But it's a good symbol for actual liberty and freedom and human rights."
A better day than the day slavery was actually abolished on a national level and not just in the Confederate states? You are a buffoon! And as far as the Voting Rights act of 1965, all people DID have the right to vote except where your party denied access to black people. With the Dems had a two-thirds majority in the House at that time, a greater percentage of Republicans than Dems voted for that bill. Keep that in mind. It's always the Dems who get in the way of people having their voices heard and it's not changed to this day.
"After all, we actually declared Independence from England and our liberty (for landed white men) on July 2, not July 4th, so it's not like the exact date is the point."
The 4th commemorates the day the Second Continental Congress approved and adopted the Declaration of Independence, separating ourselves from Great Britain. That made it official. But hey, why let history get in the way of rationalizing white-guilt pandering of black people?
More importantly, there's no doubt about when slavery was abolished nation-wide and if any day should be set aside to celebrate such a thing, why not the day the entire nation was denied the "right" to own people rather than celebrate a day when only some got their liberty? Isn't that the crux of your argument in favor of June 19 over July 4? No. You're simply pandering, not using your head. (It's best you not use what doesn't work, anyway)
------------------------------------- "A. JUNETEENTH is a day to celebrate everyone's liberty because, in the words of Dr King, NONE of us are free until all of us are free."
And so you choose to celebrate a day which does not celebrate when all were made free. Perfect example of leftist thinking.
"I GET that you're fine with celebrating when white men got their liberty and how it's easy for you to turn a blind eye to the very real oppression of black people and women (and other marginalized people) because you're not in those groups, but I ask for you to think larger than just your own petty self-interests."
Another example of "progressive" "Christian" grace-embracing as you once again accuse me of something absolutely nothing in anything I've ever posted could possible hint at such a possibility about me.
I view the 4th as a day to celebrate our independence from Great Britain...which is what it is set aside to commemorate. I view it as the day our founders documented their belief all men are created equal. I view it as the day YOUR Democrat forefathers opposed freeing all men at the same time, but better men bit the bullet for the greater good, knowing that the issue would be resolved someday soon. Thanks to the new Republican Party, it was. From that day to this, your party continued to ignore that goal for political power. Now you project your evil onto your opponents while still engaging in identity politics. I view all people of this nation as Americans, not as "black Americans", "Italian Americans", "sexually disordered Americans", etc. The people I view as least American are those like yourself who continue to divide us, continue to seek our destruction and continue to exploit groups for political gain.
"B. What you call "pandering," we call actually listening to black people."
Yeah, you lefties redefine anything if you think it serves your evil agenda. "Listening" requires hearing the truth. You only hear what you want to hear and reject that which doesn't serve you.
The pandering comes when you pat black people on the head and reassure them that all will be OK, despite the fact you haven't done a damn thing to address the real reasons for the problems in their communities.
"It's interesting (and pathetic) that you think listening to all people is pandering."
See? You weren't "listening" at all! I never said anything like that. I said morons like you are pandering. I know this because I've been "listening" to what you say and comparing it to reality. It's really not that hard when one doesn't fear the truth. You continue to demonstrate you regard the truth as an inconvenience.
8 comments:
1. Are you trying to denigrate or take a swipe at Juneteenth?
2. If so, why?
3. Juneteenth is when we celebrate the end of slavery in the US. If the US had never become independent and remained a colony of the UK, slavery almost certainly would have ended, as it did, in fact, end in Britain and Canada and other colonies associated with the UK.
4. Further, slavery ended in Britain in 1803, ~60 years before ending in the US. They abolished slavery in most of their colonies in 1833, ~30 years before the US.
A case could be made that slavery might have ended sooner if the US were still connected to Britain. Of course, we don't know.
But if the point of your post was to take some sort of mean-spirited and ill-advised attack upon Juneteenth, then it fails because it was mean-spirited and stupid and it fails because the claim is probably not factual.
Just fyi.
"1. Are you trying to denigrate or take a swipe at Juneteenth?"
More like taking a swipe at those who think Juneteenth is worth a national holiday, which it isn't.
"3. Juneteenth is when we celebrate the end of slavery in the US."
Why? That's not the day it ended. It isn't even when it ended in the Confederate states. It's just when the news finally reached Texas of the Emancipation Proclamation, which only freed slaves of the Confederate states. The United States still had slave-holding states on the northern side of the border between the Union and the Confederacy until December of 1865 when the 13th Amendment garnered enough states for passage. Among those who didn't get on board were Joe Biden's Delaware, which finally ratified the 13th in 1901, and your own Kentucky, who finally saw fit in March of freaking 1976!
"4. Further, slavery ended in Britain in 1803, ~60 years before ending in the US. They abolished slavery in most of their colonies in 1833, ~30 years before the US."
This is wrong. They had only abolished the Slave Trade in 1807, three weeks after Jefferson did it here, and it wasn't until 1833 that they abolished slavery, 32 years prior to our country. Both was largely the result of the work of Evangelical Christian William Wilberforce. In the meantime, your Democratic party did all they could to continue beating down the black man before and long after the Civil War. Were it not for Republicans...
Jefferson, by the way, had already begun work in this country toward abolishing slavery, as early as 1784...as were others. Slavery almost prevented the uniting of the colonies given there were always those among the colonists who opposed it, and they had to compromise with the slavers in order to form a more perfect union.
A case could be made that remaining part of England may have prolonged slavery as there would have been that many more colonies utilizing slaves than there were after the American Revolution, and England shelled out some serious coin to compensate colonial slave owners who had to give them up. How much more would it have cost them were America still among them and how much more likely would the economics have delayed England's abolition as a result?
In any case, the point of my post stands as firmly as it did before you tried to use it to attack me personally. This is true even if your speculation regarding our country remaining part of Britain played out that way, just in a different way.
Thus, again, we see the mean-spirited and stupid one is you. We didn't need another national holiday for people to exploit for barbecues and inebriated merriment, and to get paid by their employers despite the absence of productivity to which wages are tied. The worst part is the timing in that regard given the state of the economy after your politicians locked us down for so long, and so many lost their livelihoods as a result. I like free money and time off as much as the next guy. But adults understand the costs and act accordingly.
Finally, July 4th was intended for all men, as was our Declaration of Independence, and thus it is the only day we need to mark all men's independence...not one day for this group and another for that. I have no respect for panderers, and that's what you and your party are, as you exploit for political power.
Marshal... "More like taking a swipe at those who think Juneteenth is worth a national holiday, which it isn't."
Also Marshal... " We didn't need another national holiday for people to exploit... I like free money and time off as much as the next guy."
1. Okay, if you're just worried about having an extra day off (to exploit and be lazy, in your sick opinion) so how about abandoning the Fourth of July which literally marked (symbolically) the independence of WHITE MEN only, when it started, in favor of Juneteenth, when we literally celebrate the ACTUAL liberty of all people? Symbolically speaking, it's a much better thing to celebrate ACTUAL liberty instead of liberty for a few.
You wouldn't favor that, would you? I mean, you still want this nation run by the minority of white men who agree with you, right...? Isn't that exactly what all these voting limitations are all about (and you can deny it, but we all see it for what it is). Right?
2. A large majority of black folk (~70%) support the Juneteenth holiday, in spite of the fact that Marshal views it as useless and just an opportunity to exploit and be lazy.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/juneteenth-holiday-schools-poll/
But if Marshal disagrees with those people who Marshal must think are stupid and lazy, then we should bow to Marshal's whims.
Do you ever get outside your own head and try to understand the world around you?
I mean, I know that kind of thing is frowned upon in today's conservatism, but once upon a time, conservatives at least stood for some ideals and recognizing reality and trying to understand others was not as frowned upon as it is today.
Be a brave and smart conservative. Not one that racists and xenophobes are comfortable with.
Marshal... "Why? That's not the day it ended."
We all know this. But it's a good symbol for actual liberty and freedom and human rights. We could also choose the day women got the right to vote August 18, 1920. Or we could commemorate the passage of the voting rights act on August 6, 1965 (our lifetime!) when ALL people could finally freely vote.
After all, we actually declared Independence from England and our liberty (for landed white men) on July 2, not July 4th, so it's not like the exact date is the point.
Marshal... "July 4th was intended for all men, as was our Declaration of Independence, and thus it is the only day we need to mark all men's independence...not one day for this group and another for that. I have no respect for panderers..."
A. JUNETEENTH is a day to celebrate everyone's liberty because, in the words of Dr King, NONE of us are free until all of us are free. We did not have independence or true liberty in our nation until at least after Juneteenth (and I'd argue, really, closer to after the Voting Rights Act of 1965 - since until we all can vote, then we are not really free). I GET that you're fine with celebrating when white men got their liberty and how it's easy for you to turn a blind eye to the very real oppression of black people and women (and other marginalized people) because you're not in those groups, but I ask for you to think larger than just your own petty self-interests.
B. What you call "pandering," we call actually listening to black people. It's interesting (and pathetic) that you think listening to all people is pandering.
Art,
Obviously your underlying premise is correct. Without independence from Britain, there would have been no Juneteenth. Which isn't to say that there wouldn't have been an end to slavery here, just that it would have looked different.
While I'm not sure that Junteenth should be a national holiday, I also think that it should be celebrated/acknowledged. Before I go any further, I understand the history you've pointed out and that Juneteenth isn't really the end of slavery in the US. Having said that I'm sympathetic to those who argue that the ending of slavery was a significant step toward the country our founding documents envision, and that step is significant enough to be celebrated for what it was. Since there are any number of dates that could be chosen for that celebration, and which one is chosen would be pretty arbitrary, I fail to see why Juneteenth is (for an arbitrary date) problematic.
I think that the bigger question is what the trajectory of this part of the world would have been had we not gained our independence. It seems reasonable to posit that Britain would have been severely punitive had they won, and that development would have been significantly slowed as well. Further, given the support of the CSA from England (due to their hunger for cotton), it seems likely that England would have allowed the plantation system in the south to flourish as long as they reaped the benefit of cheap cotton.
I know that it's all speculation, but had the US not won independence, it's likely that the world as we know it would have been significantly different.
"1. Okay, if you're just worried about having an extra day off..."
No. I'm not "just worried" about having an extra day off. I'm saying making it a federal holiday is not justified.
"...so how about abandoning the Fourth of July which literally marked (symbolically) the independence of WHITE MEN only, when it started, in favor of Juneteenth, when we literally celebrate the ACTUAL liberty of all people?"
This is where the ignorance/rejection of actual history comes into play. As stated in the Declaration of Independence, ALL men are created equal. That encompassed black men in the minds of the authors of the Declaration. Just because those who became the Democratic Party refused to grant that independence to blacks, doesn't mean the principles of liberty weren't intended for them as well. Again, without the slave states, there's be no United States and Juneteenth would never have come to pass after hundreds of thousands of Republicans died to free the slaves.
What's more, Juneteenth does not recognize the "actual liberty of all people". That doesn't come until December of 1865 with the ratification of the 13th Amendment. So, if we're to make a national holiday of either, it should be the Dec date, not the June date, when true end of slavery tool place in our nation. Indeed, I don't understand the thinking of the black community in ignoring Dec 6 when ALL slavery was abolished in favor of June 19 when only some slaves were freed. It's hard, thus, to imagine the current climate of race-hustling and pandering stemming from the constant lies about the nation being racist, how and why George Floyd died and concern of the BLM movement for black people propelled this date as more significant than the more comprehensive nature of Dec 6, 1865. But then, I'm not a self-loathing, white-guilt "progressive" "Christian", so facts, truth and history are important to me.
"I mean, you still want this nation run by the minority of white men who agree with you, right...?"
Nice racist comment, there Danny-girl. But the reality is, regardless of how many agree with me, regardless of what race or sex they are, regardless of whether such are in the majority or the minority, I want them in the majority of all levels of American government because those who agree with you are just as stupid, racist and fake as you. Your kind is why there's so much racial division in this country in the first place.
"Isn't that exactly what all these voting limitations are all about (and you can deny it, but we all see it for what it is). Right?"
Wrong. Again. But pretending that's what's happening with election law changes in places like Georgia is just you demonstrating my claim about you being stupid, racist and fake and responsible for racial division in this country is valid. Thanks for the evidence.
We could return to a single day for casting votes in person with paper ballots...after proving with a state ID one is who one says one is, and it wouldn't be an example of voting limitations. It would be election integrity. And there's no reason we can't do that except for leftist desire to leave open as many opportunities for fraud as possible, given their platform doesn't appeal to enough people to win elections on their platform alone (except in cities where moronic Dem voters are in the majority---but then, they either have no idea what's in the platform or are perverse and evil enough to promote it imagining they won't eventually become a victim of it as the black community has for all these years.)
"2. A large majority of black folk (~70%) support the Juneteenth holiday..."
Why they'd support doing so when it isn't a day when all slaves were freed is beyond my comprehension, but I believe my speculations are accurate. Besides, June was designated Pride in Perversion Month and who'd want to compete with that?
------------------------------------
"But if Marshal disagrees with those people who Marshal must think are stupid and lazy"
Another grace-embracing false accusation by the fake Christian. I never said all who support this move are stupid or lazy. I've no doubt this is a reference to...
"We didn't need another national holiday for people to exploit for barbecues and inebriated merriment, and to get paid by their employers despite the absence of productivity to which wages are tied."
But despite your white people hatred driving your unjustified assumption, this comment refers to what is so freaking common even a moron like yourself should have seen it naturally without me having to explain it. What percentage of Americans do you think spend much time or effort in devoting their attention to the reason we have any paid days off for national holidays? What percentage spends each day in reflection regarding the meaning of the day in question? What percentage simply regards it as free money and partying? In considering these questions, pretend you're an honest man, rather than a pandering, white-guilted goof.
"Do you ever get outside your own head and try to understand the world around you?"
If you're an example of what they looks like, I hope to never do so. But given I don't think as you do, I'm quite certain I have a better handle on the world around me than you ever will. It's too bad. You're running out of time.
"Be a brave and smart conservative. Not one that racists and xenophobes are comfortable with."
This from the guy with absolutely no understanding of conservatism while supporting the party of racism, disregard for those of other countries and identity politics.
"But it's a good symbol for actual liberty and freedom and human rights."
A better day than the day slavery was actually abolished on a national level and not just in the Confederate states? You are a buffoon! And as far as the Voting Rights act of 1965, all people DID have the right to vote except where your party denied access to black people. With the Dems had a two-thirds majority in the House at that time, a greater percentage of Republicans than Dems voted for that bill. Keep that in mind. It's always the Dems who get in the way of people having their voices heard and it's not changed to this day.
"After all, we actually declared Independence from England and our liberty (for landed white men) on July 2, not July 4th, so it's not like the exact date is the point."
The 4th commemorates the day the Second Continental Congress approved and adopted the Declaration of Independence, separating ourselves from Great Britain. That made it official. But hey, why let history get in the way of rationalizing white-guilt pandering of black people?
More importantly, there's no doubt about when slavery was abolished nation-wide and if any day should be set aside to celebrate such a thing, why not the day the entire nation was denied the "right" to own people rather than celebrate a day when only some got their liberty? Isn't that the crux of your argument in favor of June 19 over July 4? No. You're simply pandering, not using your head. (It's best you not use what doesn't work, anyway)
-------------------------------------
"A. JUNETEENTH is a day to celebrate everyone's liberty because, in the words of Dr King, NONE of us are free until all of us are free."
And so you choose to celebrate a day which does not celebrate when all were made free. Perfect example of leftist thinking.
"I GET that you're fine with celebrating when white men got their liberty and how it's easy for you to turn a blind eye to the very real oppression of black people and women (and other marginalized people) because you're not in those groups, but I ask for you to think larger than just your own petty self-interests."
Another example of "progressive" "Christian" grace-embracing as you once again accuse me of something absolutely nothing in anything I've ever posted could possible hint at such a possibility about me.
I view the 4th as a day to celebrate our independence from Great Britain...which is what it is set aside to commemorate. I view it as the day our founders documented their belief all men are created equal. I view it as the day YOUR Democrat forefathers opposed freeing all men at the same time, but better men bit the bullet for the greater good, knowing that the issue would be resolved someday soon. Thanks to the new Republican Party, it was. From that day to this, your party continued to ignore that goal for political power. Now you project your evil onto your opponents while still engaging in identity politics. I view all people of this nation as Americans, not as "black Americans", "Italian Americans", "sexually disordered Americans", etc. The people I view as least American are those like yourself who continue to divide us, continue to seek our destruction and continue to exploit groups for political gain.
"B. What you call "pandering," we call actually listening to black people."
Yeah, you lefties redefine anything if you think it serves your evil agenda. "Listening" requires hearing the truth. You only hear what you want to hear and reject that which doesn't serve you.
The pandering comes when you pat black people on the head and reassure them that all will be OK, despite the fact you haven't done a damn thing to address the real reasons for the problems in their communities.
"It's interesting (and pathetic) that you think listening to all people is pandering."
See? You weren't "listening" at all! I never said anything like that. I said morons like you are pandering. I know this because I've been "listening" to what you say and comparing it to reality. It's really not that hard when one doesn't fear the truth. You continue to demonstrate you regard the truth as an inconvenience.
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